Considering earning an MFA in Photography

[DREW WILEY]

Heck, even with a fancy degree, it can be hard to find a job. We had law school graduates sweeping floors and cleaning bathrooms for six years before they found a position in law, same with MBA's and wannabee digital animators. In the meantime, they were facing one or two hundred thousand dollars of education debt, and could barely pay rent as it was. Maybe living expenses would be a little more tolerable out of state, but wages are lower too.

And once someone has taken up roots on the West Coast, it can be quite unappealing to leave behind the beaches, forests, and mountains, and even spectacular deserts just a few hours drive away. Here I am at the edge of a large city, and yesterday it took me only a ten minute drive to obtain complete solitude in a nearby large preserve (18,000 acres cumulatively) filled with wildflowers, birds, and butterflies. Sure, there were hikers and cyclers and probably horseback riders somewhere within that too - I just didn't run into any yesterday, or on numerous other days as well, especially mid-week. Lots of elbow room.

I simply did what I had to do - take whatever jobs were available, work my way up the chain to obtain serious benefits along with generous vacation time, and be willing to take on a fixer-up property (with space for a shop and darkroom too - with a certain amount of needed side income made possible by that).

 

[Paul Howell]

I recommended that you spend time doing a deep dive into the market. Community college teach photography both commercial and fine arts, a MFA would be very helpful. But most Community College do not hire full time instructors so you need to determine how folks with MFA are there and how many Community Colleges have full time staff. According to Chat Bot AI

• Associate Degrees: 129 colleges offer a two-year degree.
• Bachelor's Degrees: 112 colleges grant a four-year degree.
• Master's Degrees: 23 universities offer graduate programs, such as a Master of Fine Arts (MFA).
• Undergraduate Certificates: 133 institutions supply targeted certificate

In terms of grants, not sure if a MFA will give you a leg up. What MFA can do is give the basic understanding of art and how photography relates to fine art perhaps giving you a create edege.

If this is your passion and you think you will grow and you can afford it, then why not? if on the other hand if you think is a meal ticket, then no.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

There's nothing wrong with teaching. But the world you're describing doesn't really exist any more.

Sorry, I didn't know they closed the schools in Texas and cancelled pensions. What am I missing?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It can be difficult to live on $60-64K gross a year in most large cities.

That;s Dallas starting salary, which apparently is going up to $68,000 in Sept, Master teachers who have been around make $100K. Bilingual gets an extra $5000 stipend. I don;t know the OP's financial condition. Maybe his wife works. He could live more cheaply outside the city and commute. Apparently, other teachers manage with this pay, which also include medical and dental insurance and other benefits besides a pension. Plus, he'll have extra time to make money from photography.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Long term teaching position prospects are necessarily that rosy, Alan. When inevitable budget cuts do arrive, things like art and music are generally the first on the chopping block. And there is a lot of competition for such positions
to begin with. Dallas "starting salary" would be considered poverty level here for the upcoming generation. A good car mechanic gets paid much better. Some school teachers are being imported from third world countries under special temporary visas and special low-income housing arrangements, and they can be quite competent.

Living in the burbs instead, some long-distance commuters are spending over a hundred dollars a day on gasoline to and from the local Tech empire, plus all the mileage wear and tear on both their auto and themselves, up to four hours a day in traffic. Is it worth it? And those inland locales are already in the 90's, approaching even worse summer heat. The subdivisions are atrociously bad examples of urban planning when under the control of developer bribes, lousy build-quality too.

We dodged all that. I bought a house before all that. My younger wife got through the University on scholarships,
and then took advantage of a Biotech apprentice program, then saved up enough from a stint in that career to pay her way up front through medical school, debt-free. Now she finally burnt out due to all the stress of the Covid era,
and is no longer working. But we've accumulated enough of a nest egg to coast in retirement if we watch our expenses. I had to give up my mountain property due to all the brush and tree work involved in forest fire prevention - enjoyable when I was younger, but not with my stiff joints and painful fingers at this age. But one of the things I enjoy about living on the coast exclusively now is the mild climate. No need for air conditioning and all that extra utility bill expense.

If I wanted to teach photography part time, I could do it. People would probably just laugh if the topic of a an Art degree even came up. A MFA is more of a license to "pontificate" in a University environment, that's all. It doesn't necessarily equate to actual proficiency as a photographer or artist - it's more about following some P-correct artsy trend or whatever, in order to fit in somewhere in a relatively ossified academic peck order.

 

[Don_ih]

I doubt the prospects are that great for getting a photography-related education. I'd expect the number of teaching positions will drop as the number of photography-related paying-positions drops. Smartphones have put a real dent in paid photography. News photography seems to be mostly freelance (or done by the journalist - using a phone). AI will surely eat into stock photography and commercial photography. Maybe working at the print lab could eventually shift into a more meaningful line of work, related to print, related to photography? A niche market is still a market.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

As a teacher, it meant a sight bump in salary and pension.

 

[Mike Lopez]

That;s Dallas starting salary, which apparently is going up to $68,000 in Sept, Master teachers who have been around make $100K. Bilingual gets an extra $5000 stipend. I don;t know the OP's financial condition. Maybe his wife works. He could live more cheaply outside the city and commute. Apparently, other teachers manage with this pay, which also include medical and dental insurance and other benefits besides a pension. Plus, he'll have extra time to make money from photography.

What is it that makes you assume the OP is a married man?

 

[Pieter12]

That;s Dallas starting salary, which apparently is going up to $68,000 in Sept, Master teachers who have been around make $100K. Bilingual gets an extra $5000 stipend. I don;t know the OP's financial condition. Maybe his wife works. He could live more cheaply outside the city and commute. Apparently, other teachers manage with this pay, which also include medical and dental insurance and other benefits besides a pension. Plus, he'll have extra time to make money from photography.

You might want to read the OP--not he.

I will assume a "Master teacher" is one who teaches post-grad. I doubt she would qualify for something like that for a while. As someone stated in an earlier post, many schools are hiring adjuncts to teach and pay them poorly, certainly not enough to support themselves decently, much less a family.

 

[blee1996]

I would probably do baby steps:

1) Enroll in some photography related classes in local community college, typically they are free. And you get to know fellow students and staff, in terms of their experience with fine art degree. Maybe even more importantly, photography related jobs and teaching opportunities.

2) Start side hustle: e.g. assistant to established photographers like several members mentioned; help out with wedding and event photographers. You get more insights into the business, and gain more contacts. You might even earn a small side income.

3) Dedicate a large portion of your free time on personal photography projects. At the end of the day, your work have to speak for themselves.

The only person in my circle who started an MFA program recently, is a retired doctor (i.e. who is already financially secure).

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Long term teaching position prospects are necessarily that rosy, Alan. When inevitable budget cuts do arrive, things like art and music are generally the first on the chopping block. And there is a lot of competition for such positions
to begin with. Dallas "starting salary" would be considered poverty level here for the upcoming generation. A good car mechanic gets paid much better. Some school teachers are being imported from third world countries under special temporary visas and special low-income housing arrangements, and they can be quite competent.

Living in the burbs instead, some long-distance commuters are spending over a hundred dollars a day on gasoline to and from the local Tech empire, plus all the mileage wear and tear on both their auto and themselves, up to four hours a day in traffic. Is it worth it? And those inland locales are already in the 90's, approaching even worse summer heat. The subdivisions are atrociously bad examples of urban planning when under the control of developer bribes, lousy build-quality too.

We dodged all that. I bought a house before all that. My younger wife got through the University on scholarships,
and then took advantage of a Biotech apprentice program, then saved up enough from a stint in that career to pay her way up front through medical school, debt-free. Now she finally burnt out due to all the stress of the Covid era,
and is no longer working. But we've accumulated enough of a nest egg to coast in retirement if we watch our expenses. I had to give up my mountain property due to all the brush and tree work involved in forest fire prevention - enjoyable when I was younger, but not with my stiff joints and painful fingers at this age. But one of the things I enjoy about living on the coast exclusively now is the mild climate. No need for air conditioning and all that extra utility bill expense.

If I wanted to teach photography part time, I could do it. People would probably just laugh if the topic of a an Art degree even came up. A MFA is more of a license to "pontificate" in a University environment, that's all. It doesn't necessarily equate to actual proficiency as a photographer or artist - it's more about following some P-correct artsy trend or whatever, in order to fit in somewhere in a relatively ossified academic peck order.

How many people start a new career at $68,000, going up to $100K, including health and dental coverage and other benefits and work 9 months a year and get a pension worth over $35K annually after twenty years, and can set aside a tax-deferred retirement account in a 401K? Who said she has to teach in art? She can save that for a side job in photorgaphy. Other Dallas teachers seem to survive. Relating what you did in life doesn't help anyone who's younger trying to make a buck and live their life. What do you suggest? Does she go on welfare? How about being positive and offering some good ideas?

 

[Arthurwg]

Still, I'm not sure what the goal is. I would think that most people who get an MFA want to be artists first, and perhaps failing to become successful become teachers. The other approach might be commercial photography. I remember the Brooks Institute in California, now closed, which launched quite a few successful commercial photographers and even a few "artists." That seemed to make sense at the time, but I don't know where you would get that kind of education today.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

What is it that makes you assume the OP is a married man?

Unfortunately, Mike, you and I are among the few who use our names here, so it can get confusing

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Sorry, I didn't know they closed the schools in Texas and cancelled pensions. What am I missing?

They haven't closed the schools, but pensions are an incredibly rare thing these days, even in public schools. And the idea of getting tenure that would keep you in that position being pretty much automatic is also going the way of the dinosaur. Schools are being made sufficiently miserable places for teachers that many can't/don't stay long enough to get tenure. Helps the school districts keep their budgets low.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

You might want to read the OP--not he.

I will assume a "Master teacher" is one who teaches post-grad. I doubt she would qualify for something like that for a while. As someone stated in an earlier post, many schools are hiring adjuncts to teach and pay them poorly, certainly not enough to support themselves decently, much less a family.

Nothing to do with teaching post-grad. This is for primary school teachers. A master teacher has been evaluated and reaches the proficiency levels at the highest level, which raises their salaries. Dallas, unlike NYC, doesn't raise salaries based on years of service but by regular evaluations, like most jobs. .

 

[Pieter12]

Nothing to do with teaching post-grad. This is for primary school teachers. A master teacher has been evaluated and reaches the proficiency levels at the highest level, which raises their salaries. Dallas, unlike NYC, doesn't raise salaries based on years of service but by regular evaluations, like most jobs. .

I don't think there are many positions for primary school photography teachers in Texas.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

They haven't closed the schools, but pensions are an incredibly rare thing these days, even in public schools. And the idea of getting tenure that would keep you in that position being pretty much automatic is also going the way of the dinosaur. Schools are being made sufficiently miserable places for teachers that many can't/don't stay long enough to get tenure. Helps the school districts keep their budgets low.

Well, if the OP is successful in photography after getting her MFA, she can quit her teaching job anyway. In the meanwhile, she;s working at a regular job while having a lot of time off to persue photography as a side hustle.

I just checked and apparantly 90% of the teachers stay on often up to $100K salaires. Only the ones under five years and doing poorly in their evaluations don;t get rehired. I can't imagine that Dallas wants poor teachers. If they have someone doing a good job, they'll pay them for it just as any private company does. I'm sure Dallas parents want good teachers rehired.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I don't think there are many positions for primary school photography teachers in Texas.

She'll teach something else.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

I got a BA in Photography and a good portion of my class went on to pursue an MFA. Most of them no longer work in the field. I am skeptical of Photo MFAs. The fact is, 'Photography' as an art form is in a changing place. We don't yet know if it's going to continue as an ongoing medium or become sort of like Jazz, which is enjoyed mostly by people who seek it out. Academia is no entry to stability. Professional photography has little to nothing to do with an MFA. Personally, I would never do it unless I was independently wealthy and was in a position to chase my interests without worrying about where it will take my life.

 

[Pieter12]

She'll teach something else.

Then why the MFA? What do you think she'd be qualified to teach?

 

[warden]

We don't yet know if it's going to continue as an ongoing medium or become sort of like Jazz, which is enjoyed mostly by people who seek it out. Academia is no entry to stability.

I agree with both comments there, especially at the college level. K-12 is a bit different but that may not interest the OP.

It’s impossible to say if an MFA would be the soundest financial investment with the info we have, but if it’s in your heart to study and perhaps teach, the MFA won’t hurt. Neither would a masters in education, which would certainly be more flexible in the job market. Either path could be helpful.

In situations like this I’m reminded of a quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson, who said, “I cannot remember the books I’ve read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.” The same can be true of that MFA. You don’t have to know where the experience will take you.

 

[Paul Howell]

A MFA does qualify for a teacher in most public schools. Charter and private schools may have more latitude but she will need the core education classes and teaching internship before she get a license. OP did not revel what her under graduate degree is in so it difficult to know what else besides a MFA she would need. At least in Arizona the art and music classes are fallen by the way side as the push has been to the 3 Rs.

 

[Tel]

Pam, I would encourage you to get the MFA. A terminal degree (there is no PhD in art per se, so the MFA is it) is your ticket to aspire to college-level teaching. To be competitive, you'll also need a portfolio of work, published or exhibited; the bigger the better. I did an MFA in theatre (production design, to be specific) and spent a few years in New York practicing and teaching, but what I found was that though the MFA was a requirement it didn't limit my choice of subject too strictly. I've taught in an art college at one point and for the last 30-odd years I taught television and film production, because those are fields in which I also worked professionally. My point is that doing a terminal degree in one field may not rule out changing tracks to another if circumstances warrant. So I say do the MFA and get started on showing your work ASAP. There are websites listing galleries that accept submissions and you'll want to get going submitting your work because you'll be taking on two jobs in parallel: getting the degree and building your portfolio. I had the good fortune to build a relationship with a gallery in LA (though I live in NJ) that hung a lot of my still photo work and gave me a substantial portfolio to crow about at my college job, even though it wasn't directly related to my teaching brief. And you'll need a thick skin--academia can be brutal if you take it too seriously, but less so if you enjoy the teaching part. (I really enjoyed working in TV; it was actually less stressful than the teaching gig was!)

That said, the higher-ed market is very tight right now. Most colleges depend to some extent on government support, whether public or private, and the first thing they cut when funds are shrinking is faculty jobs. Hopefully, that may change in the future and these things can be very different from one community to another, so you may well find a college that's a good fit and has money to make a new hire!

 

[Pieter12]

I’m curious about the websites listing galleries that accept submissions. To my (limited) knowledge, galleries won’t look at anything unsolicited unless it is a referral or through events such as portfolio reviews.

 

[DREW WILEY]

And how many gallery operators even bother to look at real prints anymore? Times have sure changed, and not for the better. I could walk into fine venues unannounced as a complete unknown, with a portfolio case in hand, and be welcomed. Having a referral by a friend already represented by them was a sure fire way to get shown myself. But I had the requisite quality of work and presentation to warrant that. It's not like applying for a grant via a written prospectus and long list of county fair blue ribbons.

My brother attended an expensive photo academy; but I don't think they even offered degrees or certificates - it was all about acquiring the requisite technical and business skills.