Congo large format lenses

[Lachlan Young]

I have two more Dial set Compur II shutters, one is in th late 660 thousands the other 700074 is a Schneider lens with a serial number that's 1925/6. The SN of this shutter is offset the other way. My Wray 184mm came on an MPP monorail lens board, so presumably it was sold with a 7x5 monorail.

If you see my other thread Wray advertised this Lustrar in a Dial set Compur CII

View attachment 362688

Ian

Don't suppose it has DBP or DRP engraved anywhere?

I recall reading somewhere in an article about MPP and Wray (by Colin Glanfield?) about it supposedly not being very clear where Wray/ MPP had got their hands on the Compurs when there was a severe shortage of shutters in the UK under the export-or-die austerity conditions of the time.

The other possible conjecture I have is that they were assembled out of parts Deckel/ Gauthier had on hand as West Germany dug itself out of the wreckage and that the S/N was simply whatever was on the casings in the parts stores of what was not an especially widely used shutter size (I'd like to know the production rates compared to the #1 and the smallest Compound). The BIOS report on Deckel makes it clear that the level of destruction (and effective cessation of shutter production in 1941) was such that the shutters would need to be retooled (40-50 skilled personnel and about a year is the timescale quoted) - and given that it's probably highly likely that the decision to go to rim-set was taken at that point, I cannot see the lowest selling Compur type shutter being completely retooled twice in 5 years - as opposed to the #00, #0, #1 not going through those iterations - thus I suspect old stock/ remanufactured stock.

Or, they were 'acquired' from Voigtländer in Braunschweig as that was in the British Sector - the BIOS report on Voigtländer indicates that there were "70,000 Prontor and Compur shutters in stock, of which 40,000 are reckoned to be serviceable" - it would not surprise me if, like the Graflex metalwork on the MPP Micropress, the shutters had arrived as 'spares' or some form of CKD kit.

For whatever reason, I'd never clocked the 184 Wray as being in a Compur II, probably because all the ones I'd seen in passing were in rim-set shutters.

 

[Ian Grant]

I've never seen a B&L dial set Compur, that shutter has the Deckel FD on the dial. Although B&L became one of the partners in Deckel, around 1910, they may have originally only made Compound shutters.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

Don't suppose it has DBP or DRP engraved anywhere?

Or, they were 'acquired' from Voigtländer in Braunschweig as that was in the British Sector - the BIOS report on Voigtländer indicates that there were "70,000 Prontor and Compur shutters in stock, of which 40,000 are reckoned to be serviceable" - it would not surprise me if, like the Graflex metalwork on the MPP Micropress, the shutters had arrived as 'spares' or some form of CKD kit.

No DRP but neither to my others which are a different tube size, the Lustrar is in a 4 and my 135mm f3.5 Tessar is in a 5, as is the Schneider 16cm f4,5 Dialyte.

I borrowed an MPP MicroPress some years ago and realised quickly that the casing, shutter, bellows, front standard and focus track, were all made by Graflex. The folding front that the track-bed sits on, the back, and the Wray range finder are the only British parts. It's possible to see where the Graflex cast rack has been ground off and an MPP pair of racks attached to match a MicroTechnical pinion.

The 184mm Lustrars are quite rare in shutters, but so are the MPP 7x5 monorail cameras.

Ian

 

[Dan Fromm]

Are you sure Dan, the 1950 Compur serial numbers are in the 7 million, 1926 serial numbers 750 thousand.



That's what I suspect as well.

Ian

You are right. My error.

 

[David Lindquist]

There's a lot we don't know. For instance how long were Compound shutters made, it appears to be into the later 1970s, But then one would ask how many 300mm f4.5 Xenars were Schneider selling in Compound V shutter, when their own 300mm f5.6 Symmar was in a smaller and better Compur #3

Just used google translate on a bit in Hartmut Thiele's Friedrich Deckel und der Compur-Verschluss (which includes the Compound shutter).

"The last delivery of compound closures was in 1970"

Plus this bit: "The compound has been manufactured and delivered in Munich for over 67 years."

I wish I knew German.

David

 

[Vaidotas]

For anyone with some love to tessars, Yamasaki f/6.3 lens are good performers.
C. Congo 150/6.3 user here (Seiko, single coated).
As I understand Yamasaki made a bunch of brands for the same LF product - Congo, Osaka, Komura, Astragon, Prinz, some are unlabelled and just marked Y.O.
If anyone has experience with Yamasaki wide angle examples, especially 120mm, please share your impessions.

 

[Dan Fromm]

For anyone with some love to tessars, Yamasaki f/6.3 lens are good performers.
C. Congo 150/6.3 user here (Seiko, single coated).
As I understand Yamasaki made a bunch of brands for the same LF product - Congo, Osaka, Komura, Astragon, Prinz, some are unlabelled and just marked Y.O.
If anyone has experience with Yamasaki wide angle examples, especially 120mm, please share your impessions.

Prinz for sure. I once bought a 210/6.3 Prinz in Copal #1 for the shutter. After it came I asked Yamasaki whether it was one of theirs. They replied. It was.

I could well be mistaken -- recently I've been mistaken more than I like -- but I've always understood that Komura made their lenses.

 

[Ian Grant]

Just used google translate on a bit in Hartmut Thiele's Friedrich Deckel und der Compur-Verschluss (which includes the Compound shutter).

"The last delivery of compound closures was in 1970"

Plus this bit: "The compound has been manufactured and delivered in Munich for over 67 years."

I wish I knew German.

David

I have a Schneider Professional Lenses brochure from 1970, (I've never seen it Online) and the Compound has gone, replaced by Compur electronic shutters.

The Xenar's over 150mm were only available in a barrel or Electronic shutter, and you never see them second hand as they are useless.

Ian

 

[Dani]

The Osaka lenses ARE Congos and they are 4-3 NOT 4-4...
From Ted Bromwell's website...

"For 18 years, our Osaka four-element lenses have offered outstanding value in an otherwise high-priced field. We also have two 6-element lenses,150 f/5.6 and 210mm f/5.6 . All are coated and in Copal Shutters. As always, we offer a 60 day money back guarantee. See spec table for details."

Compare those specifications with the ones from the other archived website...

Don't believe me? Check out this paragraph of a review of the Osaka lenses in the View Camera Magazine from 1997

 

[Mark Crabtree]

The Osaka 120mm f6.3 is 4/4, similar to a Wide Field Ektar though the one I tried didn't seem up to WF Ektar quality.

 

[Dani]

Yes that one and the 90mm are 4/4. I didn’t post the whole list of the Congo lenses. I’ll post one later with the list of barrel lenses too

 

[maruti660]

When I first started using LF seriously in 2010, Congo was one of my firsts, and it was a great memory! At the time, I couldn't afford a Nikkor or Fuji, let alone a Schneider or a Rodenstock. On the other hand, I was fascinated by the Congo, which was not only cheap but also small. In 2014, I called Yamazaki Optical, which made the Congo, directly. The president answered the phone. He said, "Unfortunately, we went out of business a while ago." But he said, "I still have some lenses in stock, so you can find me a shutter and send it to me." I sent him two Copal #0s and he finished it. So I may have been the last customer. In 2015 I took a trip to the Oregon coast with a Chamonix 4x5, a 180mm and a 90mm wide, and the photos I took there delighted me with the excellent results, with excellent depiction of both landscapes and portraits. After that, I tried various new lenses, including Schneider and Fuji. Finally, I tried Dagor and vintage barrel lenses. Of course, they had nice images. However, I still can't forget the images of the Congos I first started using. They not only had simple, easy-to-print gradations, but were also light and not bulky. I foolishly sold those lenses. What a shame. So if you find a Congo in good condition, don't hesitate to buy it. It will teach you what value is!