Compur VS Compound shutters - differences, pros & cons etc...

[njrfoto]

Hi all,

So im looking for some info on Compur & Compound, the differences between them, there different uses, pros and cons of each, which to go for if you had a choice, OR if they are both literally two shutters which perform exactly the same operation by different means...

From my current, simple understanding, a Compur shutter has a dial set, gear clockwork mechanism, where as Compound shutters are vacumm and airpressured, where timing is achieved by releasing air. . Is that all there is too it?

Was Compur the successor of the Compound design?

Do Compurs and Compound shutters serve specific purposes better than the other?

I've heard Compound shutters have "hard sheet rubber iris blades and works flawlessly".

Any confirmations or corrections, info or insights anyone could give would be much appreciated!

Cheers

 

[shutterfinger]

Compound, Compur in its many versions, and Prontor shutters were all Zeiss companies. A Lens Collectors Vade Mecium shows the early Compur in both Dial set and Rim Set versions. Compounds are Dial Set shutters. Operation type is determined by age. SK Grimes shows a pneumatic version and there are cocking spring versions, top speed is around 1/100 second. Rim Set Compurs and later use a delay timing gearing similar to a watch and have a top speed of 1/200 - 1/500 depending on size. Ilex used hard rubber for their shutter blades and other companies may have also. I do not know how long a time span hard rubber was used for shutter blades.

 

[paul ewins]

Up until the late sixties (1969?) Compur branded shutters were small (size 00, 0, 1 & 2) while Compound shutters were large (3, 4 & 5). Then all Compound shutters were discontinued and the Compur 3 was introduced (and the Compur 2 discontinued). The Compur 3 wasn't a direct replacement for the Compound 3, it had a slightly larger opening. Some lenses that had been in Compound 4 shutters were reworked to fit a Compur 3, for instance the 360/5.6 Symmar became a 355/6.8 Symmar, while others that had been in Compur 2 shutters were given adapter rings to fit the bigger Compur 3. For those larger lenses that couldn't be reworked into a Compur 3 there was the Compur-Electronic 5fs which was a bit of a beast in many ways.

 

[Dan Fromm]

For sizes: http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique/Les_obturateurs_centraux.html

The site is in easy French. The list isn't quite complete.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ Look in the FAQs.

 

[Luis-F-S]

Is this a general information inquiry, or are you looking at a specific lens available in both shutters, or what? I feel these older shutters, if not worn out, are serviceable and usable.

 

[Ian Grant]

Compound, Compur in its many versions, and Prontor shutters were all Zeiss companies. A Lens Collectors Vade Mecium shows the early Compur in both Dial set and Rim Set versions. Compounds are Dial Set shutters. Operation type is determined by age. SK Grimes shows a pneumatic version and there are cocking spring versions, top speed is around 1/100 second. Rim Set Compurs and later use a delay timing gearing similar to a watch and have a top speed of 1/200 - 1/500 depending on size. Ilex used hard rubber for their shutter blades and other companies may have also. I do not know how long a time span hard rubber was used for shutter blades.

Compound and later Compur were shutters made by Fredrick Deckel in Munich, the Compond dates from 1902 and the Compur 1912. It's many years after WWII that they became part of Prontor by then owned by Zeiss.

To the OP yes Compur was effectively the successor to the Compound but initially in the smaller sizes from 1912, but even after WWII the Compound #3 was still being produced and only replaced by the Compur #3 relatively late. Dan Fromm or maybe Arne Croel would give you a better timeline.

I have many Compurs from around 1913 onwards and they work well and are surprisingly accurate, but so do my 3 Compounds the earliest 1912 that last a #3 with a post WWII Tele Xenar, they'll all out last a Copal. It always amazes my how smoothly Deckel shutters run.

Ian

 

[apkujeong]

The pdf at this site:

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/inter-lenses_shutters/inter-lenses_shutters.htm

has some information about old shutters, could be handy if you are ever inclined to try some DIY repairs too.

 

[shutterfinger]

The same vintage shutter repair manual linked in post 7 is also available at http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/repair_1.html but you have to save each page separately.

F Deckel Camerapedia http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Deckel click on each shutter for information on it.

 

[Ian Grant]

It's better to avid Camerapedia and us the non commercial Camera-Wiki

Ian

 

[shutterfinger]

Google Fredrick Deckel and you get page after page of hits for people searches.
Google F Deckel and you get the camera related hits of which camerapedia is one of the few or only one with the shutters listed. camerapedia is a bottom of the barrel resort imo.
All Zeiss lens pictured in A Lens Collectors Vade Mecium that are in shutters are in F Deckel shutters. Zeiss may have been an investor in F Deckel long before they bought the shutter division (speculation).

 

[Ian Grant]

Google Fredrick Deckel and you get page after page of hits for people searches.
Google F Deckel and you get the camera related hits of which camerapedia is one of the few or only one with the shutters listed. camerapedia is a bottom of the barrel resort imo.
All Zeiss lens pictured in A Lens Collectors Vade Mecium that are in shutters are in F Deckel shutters. Zeiss may have been an investor in F Deckel long before they bought the shutter division (speculation).

Zeiss used Prontor shutters as well.

Zeiss didn't invest in Deckel, quite then opposite, Deckel was involved with Linhof who after WWII used CZJ lenses, also trying bSchneided and Voightlanderand anjd Carl Zeiss (West Germany) for their LF lenses.

What you have to realise is Deckel with their Compond and very slightly later Compur shutters dominated the European market from just before WW1 until their demise. Before WWII teh Ibsor and Vario shutter were making an impact but the Ibsor was rarer, the Vario though was a very cheap alternative to a Compur and mostly found with budget lenses.

In comparison US shutters of the same period were large and unreliable, there were a few good ones but not many. The Ilex and Wollensack shutters are not made with the same precision as the German shutters.

Ian

 

[tessar]

Some good information on operating Compound pneumatic shutters in this thread from the LF Photography forum:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?9462-Reliability-of-Compound-Shutters