Community Suggestions

Jorge · Nov 3, 2004

mark said:
I agree, but there comes a time when folks start spouting the time honored "you've made my ignore list." and other such phrases. These happen, most often during non-photo topics. I personally do want to see topics banned either. Refereed maybe but not banned.

If they do, so what? you were in my ignore list for a while. That did not dimish your enjoyment of this site, even if I had told you so. I am happy to be in some ignore lists, it only adds to my enjoyment of this site.
I see no big deal if someone decides to place someone else in an ignore list and says so. IMO that is preferable to having "taboo" topics.
Hell I dont even know why we are talking about this, nor who was offended or what remark offended them so much.

I dont know, maybe someone should pm me and tell me how all this ends up and what topics are taboo, me I am going back to printing...you all let me know what was decided.

Jorge · Nov 3, 2004

TPPhotog said:
Awwwwww Jorge NOOOOOOO don't take the Rodinal away !!!!!!!!!!!!! Sob

Only if you say pretty please....

TPPhotog · Nov 3, 2004

Jorge said:
Only if you say pretty please....

MMMMMMMM I promise not to take any more pictures of your Otter errrrrrrrrrm DOG

Glenn Mathison · Nov 3, 2004

As a new member to the site, I find that it is often the comments that people post that are NOT specifically related to photography that helps me to get a small sense of "Who is this person?, What do they think about, what are they passionate about, what are they pig-headed about etc etc."

In effect, in this virtual meeting space, it helps me to figure out who is important to me, and who I should ignore. And "important to me" can be on many different levels and mean many differtn things.

I do not favour too many strict rules as it tends, in my opinion, to sterilise the environment too much. We would all hope and like that the conversations here are respectful, civil and polite. We also would acknowldge that this is sometimes not the case. So, my personal strategy is to simply ignore that posts that are not important to me. I never use the ignore list as a tool to replace the mental ignore list I have

I see evidence that Sean does a good job of restricting gross violators of the "norms" of this community, and I wonder if more is needed??

my $0.02
ymmv

Glenn

joeyk49 · Nov 3, 2004

I believe that religion and polictics are good and necessary topics in photography. Discussing them amoung adults should not become offensive. Nor should disagreements about photo subject, technique or style ever become personal.

Now the problem seems to be more about comments posted as personal attacks rather than offensive material. I have to say that I haven't read one post or viewed one photo that I perceived as "offensive".

On the other hand, I have seen some threads deteriorate into less than civil conversations. This should not be tolerated. But I disagree that certain topics should be avoided because of one or more contributors can not control their passion or their egos. The errant behavior should be addressed, not the topic itself. If an individual continually conducts himself in an unacceptable manner, then the individual should be excluded, not the topic or forum.

I value the OPINIONS found on this site. However, I keep in mind that they are individual opinions and do not always coincide with my own. The variety of personalities here makes it great. If we impose too many limits on contributions, then the site will become stale...none of us want that.

Recommendation: An occational reality check like this thread should be intiated on a regular basis.

Flotsam · Nov 3, 2004

It should be a hard and fast rule that we avoid the three P's... Politics, Prairie Oysters and P'digital. All of which are OT. However not Photography, where the P is followed by an H and therefore makes and F sound, exempting it from the P rule and would screw up the name of the site if it were banned anyway.

I would also like to see a pre-emptive ignore feature so that if oh, say, Jorge decides to put me on his ignore list, the software will automatically put him on my ignore list first giving me the immense satisfaction that I ignored him before he ignored me.

Jorge · Nov 3, 2004

Flotsam said:
It should be a hard and fast rule that we avoid the three P's... Politics, Prarie Oysters and P'digital. All of which are OT. However not Photography, where the P is followed by an H and therefore makes and F sound, exempting it from the P rule and would screw up the name of the site if it were banned anyway.

I would also like to see a pre-emptive ignore feature so that if oh, say, Jorge decides to put me on his ignore list, the software will automatically put him on my ignore list first giving me the immense satisfaction that I ignored him before he ignored me.

Just for that, you have made it to my ignore list before you get your pre-emptive ignore list, and dont even think about a pre-pre-emptive ignore list I am way ahead of you, I got me a global ignore lits...everbody is int it!

TPPhotog · Nov 3, 2004

Jorge said:
Just for that, you have made it to my ignore list before you get your pre-emptive ignore list, and dont even think about a pre-pre-emptive ignore list I am way ahead of you, I got me a global ignore lits...everbody is int it!

LOL That jug of Rodinals getting to you Jorge Maybe you should give it to me after all

anyte · Nov 3, 2004

I guess I'll throw my 1/2 cent in here.

I suggest that people avoid broad generalizations. Such as suggesting that everything or everyone is this or that, that everyone should do this or that, ... often enough it's the blanket statements that tend to get a persons ire up. How difficult is it to state something without throwing a blanket over the entire board membership, an entire country, an entire race, an entire religion? Save your blankets for sleeping with.

photomc · Nov 3, 2004

Maybe we should have some way to notify everyone that a thread is potentially offending before they open it. I understand the point of Aggie's thread and persoally agree with Michael M. that we should show good manners and behave like...I don't know, good people.

That said, as has been pointed out, in this type of format it is hard sometimes to tell when someone is kidding or not. There has been quite a bit of tension building up with the elections, and some soon to be forgotten discussions (Rodinal anyone)...and from what I see Sean has been good to let everyone let off some steam and then shut things down when it was time. Would guess I missed the parts of the threads where someone would have been so upset they would leave, and hate that anyone is that upset with what has been written. Either I don't have a clue, or maybe some are just a tad more sensitive than myself.

Know that I have offended some in the past during descussions about digital, not meaning to...

My own rules for myself...if a thread offends me (has not happened yet), just ignore the thread..if someone rubs me the wrong way, skip over their post and move on. There is no reason to leave, no reason to get really upset..

Life is just to short to worry about this stuff, now worrying about film/paper/chemicals/lens/cameras/etc...now those are things to spend alot of time reading and posting about.

jd callow · Nov 3, 2004

It is not the topics, but the wonderfully dull social graces of those posting. People need to be more creative and subtle in the trashing of their fellow apugger or they need to learn not to trash their fellows at all.

I have seen some pretty nasty posts that weren't political or religious -- it is the nasty that has to be managed not the topic.

Aggie (and all those anti pol/religous threads), with all due respect, just ignore threads whose subjects bother you, ignore posters who you find offensive and report anything beyond the pale.

We can have a community that is a real live breathing, teaching, learning, growing, thing that farts, burps and requires a little attention to hygiene.

Its hard work.

roteague · Nov 3, 2004

I really don't think that anyone here intentionally seeks to cause offense by what they say, so, I choose not to be upset at what they may say - although sometimes a gentle reminder is in order.

blansky · Nov 3, 2004

As a person who has had 2, count 'em, 2 of my topics unceremoniously closed today, I feel that I need to respond to this lovefest. I have to admit I was very hurt by this action, but I'm recovering slowly.

I would like to propose the radical idea that we should leave this site exactly the way it is. The PC police should go out and target another site to keep themselves busy. If people leave because they got their feeling hurt. TO BAD. I hope they will be able to recover, as I am trying.

Welcome to the real world. Ethics and the Lounge are two areas that are rife with opinion. If you fear opinions, don't even peek your little noses in, because there may be big bad people waiting to bite at them.

MY HUMBLE ADVICE IS LEAVE THE SITE ALONE. It works just fine the way it is.

P.S. I also stated before that everyone who joins should fill out the form stating who the hell they are and just what their intentions here. Anonymous people hiding behind cute names is childish.

Michael MCBlane

bmac · Nov 3, 2004

blansky said:
As a person who has had 2, count 'em, 2 of my topics unceremoniously closed today, I feel that I need to respond to this lovefest. I have to admit I was very hurt by this action, but I'm recovering slowly.

DUDE! I totally know how you feel! My thread "So, how about those dorks who start threads designed to rile feathers" was also unceremoniously closed today too. I fell ya brother! I do!

Flotsam · Nov 3, 2004

Jorge said:
Just for that, you have made it to my ignore list before you get your pre-emptive ignore list, and dont even think about a pre-pre-emptive ignore list I am way ahead of you, I got me a global ignore lits...everbody is int it!

D'OH!

Art Vandalay · Nov 3, 2004

Aggie said:
In light of the fact we have today lost a few members over a certain thread.

What thread!!! I'd love to read it. Kind of like looking at a car wreck.

I say leave things as they are. It's good to erupt every once in awhile and things will calm down rapidly. Chronically happy threads are dreadfully boring.

Sean · Nov 3, 2004

It's good to erupt every once in awhile and things will calm down rapidly.

Wanna trade inboxes?

Art Vandalay · Nov 3, 2004

Sean said:
Wanna trade inboxes?

You could't pay me enough Sean

modafoto · Nov 4, 2004

As I wrote in another thread, I do not want to discuss religion here. So, Aggie, I back you up!

When it comes to politics I have the same opinion (although it is hard not to comment when I see a political thread )

And a world wide ban of Rodinal...OH NO!!!! NEVER...hmmm...Agfa may discontinue it some time? :confused:

Andy K · Nov 4, 2004

Sean, sorry your inbox was so full!

I have re-read the offending thread again, for the fourth time, and I still cannot see what was so offensive it caused people to leave! It seems to me that either those who left are extremely sensitive with very thin skins or (and I honestly hope this is not the case) people are reporting otherwise harmless, but forthright, posts purely in order to control or influence what people can and cannot discuss on APUG.

If people don't like or can't tolerate the subject matter of certain threads, why do they read them? I read almost every thread on APUG, some I barely understand, others I learn from, and then in the lounge I get a wry smile at the various opinions expressed. But when I am in the lounge I take nothing personally unless it is expressly directed at me and even then I would not be so offended as to turn my back on APUG.

I also take into account that the members of APUG are from many different places and cultures, what is commonplace for some may seem abrupt or rude to others. It's a big old world and we are all different. I have found, on many sites, it pays to think that maybe that rude sounding message was posted by someone whose first language may not be English, and therefore that message may sound a little harsh but is otherwise meant in good spirit.

If there's something on TV I don't like I switch channels or turn it off, I do not call for the programme to be banned or censured. The same goes for threads and posts.

sparx · Nov 4, 2004

I personally am against banning non-photography threads. I took a brief part in THAT thread and am suprised people have apparently left because of it. It may be that I don't really have that strong an opinion on certain subjects so don't feel passionate to that degree. If you do get that het up about a discussion that is going on then make your excuses and leave, or don't get involved in the first place.

I know APUG is a photographic community and photographic is probably the keyword here (preceded by analogue obviously), but we are also a community and we need a certain amount of diversity to grow.

APUG is the only forum that i belong to and one of the reasons i like it so much is the sheer depth of what's going on here. There is currently another thread running about ignoring people that had the potential to flame up but instead evolved into a discussion on mondo cuisine, this i find priceless.

The only other group i have belonged to was a motorbike forum and GOD that was tedious, nothing but bikes, bikes, bikes. There are just times when you want to chat about something else amongst people you know. For me APUG gives me that. Please don't change it.

Nicole · Nov 4, 2004

What thread was it?

SuzanneR · Nov 4, 2004

The thread called Vote in the lounge. I didn't find it offensive at all, just bit off topic from photography. I wouldn't ban off topic threads, but politics and religion, for me, are best discussed in person.

Let's plan a big party!!

Donald Miller · Nov 4, 2004

Andy K wrote:

"I have re-read the offending thread again, for the fourth time, and I still cannot see what was so offensive it caused people to leave! It seems to me that either those who left are extremely sensitive with very thin skins or (and I honestly hope this is not the case) people are reporting otherwise harmless, but forthright, posts purely in order to control or influence what people can and cannot discuss on APUG."

It seems that several individuals have asked for the names of those people who have been purported to have left. Yet those names have not been provided. So at this point I wonder if the original assertion was, in fact, truthful.

Dave Parker · Nov 4, 2004

I always find threads of this nature to be quite informative due to others thoughts and at times very funny because there are always those who say they are turning their backs and leaving forever!

For many years, I owned and operated one of the largest online communities in the Archery Business, we had a message system very simular to this one, it used to take about 1.5 million visitors each month with about 40,000 message posted a month, and short of having many 24 hour a day moderators, it was impossible to have only on topic messages posted, so as Sean has done, we had an area for off topic conversations, which at times go down right nasty with many angry statements being posted, we had a very strongly worded disclamer letting everybody know that this particular area could be down right nasty, and still we had people who mail us everyday telling us about the messages posted in that particular area, many times people would threaten to leave and some did for a while, but we found that after the emotion of a particular topic or individual calmed down that most would come back around and get involved again.

When you have many different people and cultures involved in this type of system often times things can be difficult, but after many years of owning and running our system we found out that most of the time, the water would smooth and things would get back to normal.

I remember that probably the most difficult time on our message system was when 9/11 occurred, the hate and anger that was expressed at that time was great and it was real and lots of really hard to read threads were posted, but again, the system calmed a bit and got back to being what was considered normal.

I admire Sean, he has built a strong online community with many users and compared to a lot of the message sytems on the internet, this one stays pretty calm most times.

Keep up the good work Sean, I know what it is like and think your doing a great job.

Dave Parker
Ground Glass Specialties
Satin Snow(TM) Ground Glass

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