Combo Hypo Clear & Selenium Toner

[Pieter12]

I had read the Lewis Baltz used a combination (not sure what the proportions were) of hypo clear and selenium toner for 5 minutes before washing his prints. Anyone else do that? How does it work out for you and what are the proportions/dilutions you use?

 

[MattKing]

Hypo clearing agent is quite short lived.
Selenium toner has a bunch of fixer in it, and with replenishment is long lived.
When you combine the two, you really reduce the capacity of your toner.
This approach is a vestige of an older (early Ansel Adams) procedure that ends up wasting selenium toner and giving rise to increased concerns about hazardous waste (selenium toner) disposal.
For those reasons, it has generally fallen out of favour.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

+1000

The practice of using a mix of wash aid and selenium toner was supposed to eliminate a processing step, but really, it just made Kodak more money selling more selenium toner since so much got thrown out well before it needed to be, even without replenishment. It is one of the few practices that AA recommended that is definitely NOT best practice.

A sulfite-based wash aid (like Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent) only lasts 24 hours once mixed, tops. Selenium toner can be replenished and go for years (see below).

A couple of remarks:

First, if you don't want any image change or increase in D-max in your photos, there is absolutely no reason at all to tone in selenium.

The notion that slight toning in selenium makes the photograph more "archival" is a myth. Yes, selenium toning does protect the silver in the image, but only in proportion to the amount of toning done. Almost no one tones a photograph to completion in selenium. Most use selenium toner to just give a hint of purplish-reddish-brown to the image and/or to increase the density of the blacks subtly. This amount of toning doesn't help preserve the photograph much, if any. If you want your photos to last a long time, fix and wash well and don't exceed fixer capacities

The practice of using X dilution for X amount of time to protect the prints is misguided. First, if no image change is happening, no toning is happening. If toning is happening, then it won't be consistent for long. Keep in mind that every print you run through the toner weakens the toning solution somewhat. Print number 10 through the same toner will need longer to achieve the same amount of toning as print number one. I recommend that you tone visually. Keep an untoned print handy for comparison and pull your toned print when the desired tone change has been reached.

Toner dilutions depend on the paper you are using and the amount of image change you desire. I use dilutions anywhere from 1+5 to 1+20. If you're just starting out, start with a weak dilution and add concentrate to it to get to the amount of change you desire in a reasonable amount of time. I like toning times in the 3-5 minute range, but longer is okay too. When toning times get too long, I replenish the working solution with a bit of concentrate.

Best practice with selenium toner is:

Toning bath followed by a five-minute water rinse and then your wash aid (Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent or the like - I mix my own with sodium sulfite and bisulfite), then a thorough wash.

The five-minute rinse before the wash aid gets rid of most of the fixer so the wash aid can do its real job better; exchanging ions with those left stuck to the paper base, thereby making washing much more effective.

You can save and reuse your selenium toner indefinitely, adding small amounts of stock concentrate when the toning times become too long. Just filter it through filter paper or coffee filters before and after use. I have two gallon jugs of toner that have been going this way for way more than 10 years.

Best,

Doremus

 

[R.Gould]

I had read the Lewis Baltz used a combination (not sure what the proportions were) of hypo clear and selenium toner for 5 minutes before washing his prints. Anyone else do that? How does it work out for you and what are the proportions/dilutions you use?

Yes you can, but personally I would't reccomend it, HCA is very short lived, 24 hours working strength, with the selenium toner it can last for a very long time if you use replishiment, when the toning slows down just add a small amount of toner concentrate, also, ST was done mainly for archival reasons, a brief tone will give some archival permeance, so some say, the better way is to tone for a minute or so,then a brief wash, then into the HCA, and final wash, personal I skip the ST step, I don't know if it really makes a difference, and I like to tone in Sepia, so for me develop,stop,fix, in film strength fixer for 1 minute, or if you prefer 2 bath 30 seconds in each bath, as Ilford suggests, then I skip the brief wash and 5 minutes in HCA, and final wash.
Best
Richard