Colour Dev

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Graham.b, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. Graham.b

    Graham.b Member

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    Hello.

    Can any one suggest a C41 kit, i am in the waiting to try this out. I have a couple of 35 Kodak and 120 400nc.

    Graham
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Jessops sold their own brandC41 kit, I'm not sure if it's still available but I have used it and it was OK. They now sell a Nova C41 kit.

    Tetenal make the best C41 kit that's currently available in the UK, but you'll have to search for a store that stocks Tetenal chemistry.

    Ian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2009
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    Graham.b

    Graham.b Member

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    Hello again Ian.

    I am on the case, going to see what they have, there is a local in Swindon.

    Graham
     
  4. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Member

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  5. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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  6. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

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  7. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Start with the Tetenal kit. Either that or go straight to the kodak stuff.
     
  8. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    Tiberius,

    The Kodak C-41 chemicals are not very available in small kit form in the UK. The Fujihunt kit is less expensive than the Tetenal kit and uses separate bleach and fix baths rather than a blix. See references on APUG as to why a blix isn't such a good idea for C-41 processing.

    Tom.
     
  9. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Does anyone sell the Fuji C-41 Film X-Press Kit, 5 litres in the USA and will ship also?
     
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    Graham.b

    Graham.b Member

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    I never thought so many did their own C41 dev. Printing yes, i think i will get the Tetenal kit, and give it a go. Of course i will have to get another slot processor 20x16 for colour printing, one thing all ways leads to another.
    Thankyou all for your input.

    Graham
     
  11. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    Graham,

    If you look on the Firstcall website you'll see that Fujihunt produce a five litre kit for RA-4. The Kodak RA-4 chemistry is the best value though if you get through reasonable volumes.

    Fotch,

    Are you able to obtain a small Kodak C-41 kit?

    Tom.
     
  12. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Member

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    Yes - the Kodak RA4 kit is superb due to its low cost/litre and its packaging whereby there are separate bottles so you don't have to open up one larger one and start the oxidisation process.
     
  13. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    I'm aware the blix isn't optimal, but the kit does it all and costs $15 US for quite a few rolls.

    The kodak stuff is not available in a kit, but it's cheap relatively. It costs only 4-5 times as much as the tetenal kit and does many more rolls of film.
     
  14. tim_walls

    tim_walls Subscriber

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    Another vote for the Fuji Hunt kit - it's readily available and as noted uses separate bleach and fix.

    To buy, any of Silverprint, Firstcall or Calumet UK should see you right.
     
  15. bob100684

    bob100684 Member

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    get the fuji kit. C-41 needs a separate bleach and fix, and it seems the tetenal kit doesn't have stabilizer?
     
  16. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    *NEEDS*?

    Interesting opinion - but it it safe to say that there are those here who would disagree. I've worked with both, and from the results, *I* would PREFER combined bleach and fix.
     
  17. fotch

    fotch Member

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    I believe its discontinued. In buying the larger quantities, some sites won't ship, if they do its expensive. The local camera store in Kenosha can't or won't order the chemical. Maybe they have to buy a large quantity?

    I should try Milwaukee again. Some stores won't but I didn't call them all. Any one from Milwaukee know of a source there?

    Thanks
     
  18. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    I would be concerned of long term fading of colors from using any color development chemicals other than Kodak and Fujihunt brands. C-41 is a proprietary process that Kodak and Fuji cross licensed with each other. There are secret ingredient in Kodak and Fuji's C-41 chemicals that are not possible used by others. The ingredient holds the key to the correct processing of C-41 films. Besides, I found that, as an example, Tetenal C-41 compatible chemicals are actually more expensive than Kodak C-41 chemicals. My local photography supply store sells both. Each time I check them out I never found Tetenal a good choice for me. It is just more expensive than Kodak. You should use Kodak or Fujihunt unless you absolutely can not find them.

    Try to locate the regional photo chemical wholesale supplier which supplies all photo labs in your city or region. That's what I do. I then purchase all the chemicals I will use in one to two years. It costs more than $100 one shot out of my pocket. But then I have all I need through the year even into next year. In this case I use only Kodak chemicals. The supplier has plenty of them.
     
  19. mts

    mts Subscriber

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    There is certainly no question that either Kodak or Fuji C-41 will reproduce 'factory' results but I have not found long-term fading to be a problem for alternative C-41 used with Kodak films going back to Vericolor over 20 years ago. There really is no magic or big secret to C-41 chemistry. You can find tons of information on it in the patent literature at www.uspto.gov In my files I have books containing MacBeth chart negatives processed in alternative chemistry that seem to me to have changed very little with the passing of years.

    That is not to say suppliers of packaged chemistry, e.g. Tetenal will do as well as official processing. It is my belief that C-41 chemistry is not proprietary and that the formulae can be obtained and mixed independently without licensing. However, the "official" chemical components are difficult for an individual to obtain. The official chemistry formulations are tailored to machine processing requirements that are not necessarily required for hand processing in small tanks. Pat Dignan and others researched alternative chemistry over twenty years ago and established clearly that perfectly adequate results can be had by mixing your own chemistry.

    You might want to look at the Alternative C-41 thread that I started a week or so ago.
     
  20. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    I am certainly not a chemist nor an expert about C-41 process. So I can not refute on this subject any further. But from reading photo.net and APUG forum entries over the years I got the impression that there are secret proprietary ingredients in the C-41 chemicals. I have a collection of about 3 years of publication of Creative Darkroom & Photo Techniques that had a lot of Digna's articles published in them. I remember Dignan (maybe another author) did say Part A of C-41 developer is where the Kodak secret ingredients are in.

    I don't know where you can obtain an official C-41 formula from anywhere. There are alternative formula published from individuals who claim that the formula works. I just don't believe they work as well as official C-41 chemicals. This may be just my opinion. I hope Photo Engineer will be willing to comment on this. I do understand that he would probably not want to comment on specific 3rd party brand chemicals as he was an chemical guru from Kodak. But I hope at least he would be willing to tell if there is any secret ingredient in Kodak's C-41 chemicals. Kodak Final Rinse is one that is proprietary. Kodak's latest color films are coated with specific ingredient that allows them to be bathed with this final rinse without using the traditional harmful Formalin based stabilizer.
     
  21. RPC

    RPC Member

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    I believe the author you are referring to is Bertram Miller. In an article written by him he says that C-41 developers he scratched mixed never did equal Kodak Flexicolor developer in terms of sensitometric results. But he found that if he used part A of the Flexicolor developer and mixed it with scratch versions of parts B and C, the sensitometric results equaled Flexicolor developer. This led him to believe that part A had some proprietary or "secret" ingredient(s) not included in scratch formulas since they are not generally known.

    But as PE has pointed out, grain and sharpness are also factors in which scratch formulas likely do not match Flexicolor developer due again to missing ingredients. I use both Flexicolor and home-brew scratch chemistry and have found my particular formula to have sensitometric results that are close enough to Flexicolor to satisfy me, and while I don't measure grain and sharpness, visually I am satisfied with the results I get; others might have more stringent requirements. I mostly use Flexicolor, but I want to be prepared for the day it becomes difficult or expensive to get or completely unavailable.

    rpc