Color slide film - popularity?

[AgX]

I don't understand in this day and age why slide film would even be on anyone's radar. Unless you are projecting it, (or using it for some alt-process) slide film is nowhere near as versatile as neg film. Anyone who has done much scanning will know that neg film is a joy to scan compared to slide film. I could never understand why the publishing industry used slide film...

Good points. My view too.

Part of the problem to me was the lack of technical knowledge of the commercial photographers, on contrast and density ranges through-out the whole process from taking to final print-shop print.
Also I think photographers or ad firms had a better chance to sell a photo to a client if a halide transparency was presented on the light-table than than a halide print.
Finally printers had less to argue about hues if they got a transparency than a masked negative.

I think this all were the reasons for the slide being generally regarded the better source within commercial photographers.

 

[dabsond]

I recently made a trip home over the holidays. My father was an avid photographer using slide film. There are still more than 80 carousel trays of slides in the collection. I have viewed these numerous times. This time I was exploring a hall closet when I came across another small collection of slide trays. These were slides from my grandparents. I pulled out the old Kodak Carousel projector and screen and slowly went through the slides. I had never seen these and it was quite the experience seeing the collection dating from the 40's through the 70's.

I have been shooting 35mm slides for about 3 years now. I usually carry a pair of Minolta Maxxum 7's. One loaded with B&W and one loaded with E6. I have not taken a snapshot with my phone for quite a while. I cannot see them being available or viewable in another 40 years on my phone. After this recent trip home, I showed my oldest son the do's and don'ts of the slide projector. (let the fan run till bulb cool, etc.)

This whole experience was not just looking at the photos but, it was about projecting them near life size. Knowing that each slide had been handled and loaded into the carousel by the photographer. It was an overall photographic experience the like that people swiping left or right on their phones no longer get to enjoy.

Yes, I will keep shooting slide film as long as it is available.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

The number of E6 labs is increasing globally. Also due to the introduction and huge success of Ektachrome. Lots of labs which so far have only offered C41 are now also offering E6.
And there are lots of labs worldwide which offer excellent quality, excellent service, attractive prices and online business: The films are processed the same day they are coming in, and sent the same day back to the customer.
And there is always the option to process E6 at home: It is very easy, very cheap and delivers perfect results.

Best regards,
Henning

Sounds like alternative news than something I see for real. Yes, I have seen E6 kits at high price locally I have used one from argentix as well, but film, developing chemicals price is just not reasonable for regular use. One roll a month, maybe. For results which are nothing special on computer screen. I have projector, but it is so yesterday and not worth of the hassle anymore.

 

[Henning Serger]

Sounds like alternative news than something I see for real.

It is based on intensive market research and contacts to labs all over the world. Of course there are regional differences.
In Germany e.g. same day processing, often even 2 hour processing, for E6 is standard at the leading professional labs.
You should have a look here:
https://www.agximaging.com/
Just at the US / Canadian border. Excellent quality and service, and only 8$ for E6 processing.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[runswithsizzers]

I don;t have PS but use Lightroom. I also have PS Elements. Do you know how these programs handle color negative scans? What's the process with PS that makes it so good?

Whether you use Lightroom or Photoshop, the "problem" with color negative film is the same, how to get rid of the orange color mask, and invert the colors so they "look right."

From experience, I know it is possible to get the job done (more-or-less) using only Photoshop; less sure about Lightroom. There is a third party plugin for Lightroom called Negative Lab Pro which is designed specifically to help invert color negatives. (A second plugin exists for Photoshop users called ColorPerfect.) There is an active thread discussing Negative Lab Pro <here>

I have been making slideshow movies similar to your Scuba Diving video. I recently repaired my old Kodak projector - and I have mixed feelings when comparing the two kinds of slideshows. I must say, it's hard for my smallish, HD TV to compete with the projected slides for image quality and the "wow" factor! But the TV does win out for convenience.

 

[MattKing]

You should have a look here:
https://www.agximaging.com/
Just at the US / Canadian border. Excellent quality and service, and only 8$ for E6 processing.

Ko.Fe. is on the wrong side of the border for that to be a great option.
Postage (actually parcel shipping) through Canada Post is expensive, The difference in currencies is expensive. Dealing cross border can be both slow and expensive.
We actually have a better option ("The Lab") out here on the West Coast of Canada, 5000 km away, but they are one of only two labs doing E6, and the other only supplies infrequent service for 35mm only.

 

[Henning Serger]

Hello Matt,
thanks for the info about cross-border shipping difficulties. As a EU member I am used to sending packages to our EU neighbour countries without any problems. We are spoiled here with lots of advantages in doing business across borders.
Maybe another Canadian option: Borealis
http://www2.borealislab.qc.ca/borealis/en-home
A friend of mine has used them for E6 when he was in Canada for several weeks and was very satiesfied with the quality and service.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[abruzzi]

For me, the reason I shoot slide film is the negative orange mask. Sometimes I will send film out for developing, but I’m trying to bring all the processes in house. I can shoot, develop, print, and scan B&W film. (I “scan” with my DSLR). I’m not equipped to print color, so I shoot, develop, and scan color, but getting negative film to look right is very difficult for me. The best results I’ve gotten are with negative lab pro, but there are certain limitations to that application that I don’t like, and can still be difficult to work with. A scan of a slide might need a little tweaking, but it is usually pretty darn close.

I still shoot negative film on the assumption that I’ll eventually figure out a process to make it work, but so far it has forced me to spend far more time on my computer than I would like.

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Henning.
Ko.Fe. would still run into the problem of having to pay parcel shipping prices to send film the 500 km from Toronto to Montreal.

 

[Henning Serger]

Thanks Henning.
Ko.Fe. would still run into the problem of having to pay parcel shipping prices to send film the 500 km from Toronto to Montreal.

Interesting.
Looks like we Germans are very spoiled here with our postal service. Sending films (up to 1 kilogramm ! ) to Germany's best E6 lab is only 2.7 €. So less than a coffee......
The distance from me to it is about 500 km (but distance has no influence on price here inbetween Germany).

Best regards,
Henning

 

[markbau]

Whether you use Lightroom or Photoshop, the "problem" with color negative film is the same, how to get rid of the orange color mask, and invert the colors so they "look right."

From experience, I know it is possible to get the job done (more-or-less) using only Photoshop; less sure about Lightroom. There is a third party plugin for Lightroom called Negative Lab Pro which is designed specifically to help invert color negatives. (A second plugin exists for Photoshop users called ColorPerfect.) There is an active thread discussing Negative Lab Pro <here>

I have been making slideshow movies similar to your Scuba Diving video. I recently repaired my old Kodak projector - and I have mixed feelings when comparing the two kinds of slideshows. I must say, it's hard for my smallish, HD TV to compete with the projected slides for image quality and the "wow" factor! But the TV does win out for convenience.

It’s done at the scanning stage. All scanning software I know of has this function, even my ancient Coolscan does a superb job of removing the mask.

 

[runswithsizzers]

It’s done at the scanning stage. All scanning software I know of has this function, even my ancient Coolscan does a superb job of removing the mask.

True, Vuescan usually does an OK job of getting me in the ball park with scans of color negs from my old Minolta film scanner.

However, my Minolta film scanner was a discontinued model when I bought it back in 2002. And the SCSI-to-Firewire adapter it needs is no longer being manufactured, either. If your Coolscan dies tomorrow - or a year from now - will you be able to find a used one to replace it at price you can afford?

The future of film scanning is going to be less about film scanners and the software they need, and more about digital cameras and macro lenses. My reply was to someone who having trouble getting good color from his Ektar scans, and was asking someone about processing "camera scans" in Lightroom/Photoshop.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

There's nothing like the magic of seeing a transparency on a light box. I haven't shot chrome film since I was a commercial photographer. It's sharper than color neg film but has less latitude. Back then, if I had a choice, I'd rather shoot color neg film but art directors won't allow it.

 

[AgX]

True, Vuescan usually does an OK job of getting me in the ball park with scans of color negs from my old Minolta film scanner.

However, my Minolta film scanner was a discontinued model when I bought it back in 2002. And the SCSI-to-Firewire adapter it needs is no longer being manufactured, either. If your Coolscan dies tomorrow - or a year from now - will you be able to find a used one to replace it at price you can afford?

The future of film scanning is going to be less about film scanners and the software they need, and more about digital cameras and macro lenses. My reply was to someone who having trouble getting good color from his Ektar scans, and was asking someone about processing "camera scans" in Lightroom/Photoshop.

This is an analogue thread.

 

[runswithsizzers]

This is an analogue thread.

Sorry. I saw the "Miscellaneous Equipment" heading under the title, but not the one above it.

So please clarify, to help me understand how these forums are supposed to work: Are all posts which include references to "scans" and "scanning" prohibited in the 100% analog discussions? (Such as posts #7, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 24, 33, and 36?)

 

[jtk]

The number of E6 labs is increasing globally. Also due to the introduction and huge success of Ektachrome. Lots of labs which so far have only offered C41 are now also offering E6.
And there are lots of labs worldwide which offer excellent quality, excellent service, attractive prices and online business: The films are processed the same day they are coming in, and sent the same day back to the customer.
And there is always the option to process E6 at home: It is very easy, very cheap and delivers perfect results.

Best regards,
Henning

If you want to process it yourself, have at it, especially if your time is worthless, and family time is worthless.

Note also that nobody markets a direct positive color paper, making scanning or internegatives the only print resource if youre afraid of your computer.

If you're willing to put up with far-away processing time plus several days of transit, good for you.

However many/most former E6 shooters counted on one day service, therefore for them digital makes more sense...along with being a better kind of tool visually.. Amateurs, of course, have always preferred negative film unless they demanded the best, which was Kodachrome (unless they wanted a faster film).

Virtually nobody projects slides anymore, Kodak doesn't make projectors anymore, and...most importantly...digital cameras have been phenomenally good for twenty years.

 

[jtk]

I don;t have PS but use Lightroom. I also have PS Elements. Do you know how these programs handle color negative scans? What's the process with PS that makes it so good?

Answer: huge investment over time by brilliant people makes Photoshop "so good". I don't use Lightroom or Elements.

 

[MattKing]

This highlights the problem with the division of classifications - analog, hybrid and digital.
If we are going to ask about the "popularity" of a film type, surely its use in both purely analog and hybrid (scanning to digital) uses are relevant to questions of popularity.
The site would be well served by an ability to tag a thread as being both analog and hybrid.

 

[AgX]

Sorry. I saw the "Miscellaneous Equipment" heading under the title, but not the one above it.

So please clarify, to help me understand how these forums are supposed to work: Are all posts which include references to "scans" and "scanning" prohibited in the 100% analog discussions? (Such as posts #7, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 24, 33, and 36?)

Why should one hint at scanning in a analog thread (aside of uploading issues), more so in detail?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Whether you use Lightroom or Photoshop, the "problem" with color negative film is the same, how to get rid of the orange color mask, and invert the colors so they "look right."

From experience, I know it is possible to get the job done (more-or-less) using only Photoshop; less sure about Lightroom. There is a third party plugin for Lightroom called Negative Lab Pro which is designed specifically to help invert color negatives. (A second plugin exists for Photoshop users called ColorPerfect.) There is an active thread discussing Negative Lab Pro <here>

I have been making slideshow movies similar to your Scuba Diving video. I recently repaired my old Kodak projector - and I have mixed feelings when comparing the two kinds of slideshows. I must say, it's hard for my smallish, HD TV to compete with the projected slides for image quality and the "wow" factor! But the TV does win out for convenience.

TV definitely convenient. I keep the movie slideshows in a memory card attached to the USB connector on the TV. It does a "wow" job I think as I have a UHD 4K 75" "Back-lit" screen when a slide projector screen is reflective. SInce the "show" also has music, title, credits, captions, etfc, I think it's better than a slide projector. It also gives me a reason to continue to shoot slide film because I'm going to scan it and display it digitally. Although I haven't done so yet, I could print from scanned digital slides. There's little reason to use negative film which I find hard to get the colors right when I scan.

ALso, I don;t shoot 35mm film any longer but rather medium format. I'm starting on 4x5 sheet film now. So it will be interesting to see scanned 4x5 Velvia 50 slides on a 75" 4K TV screen.

 

[iandvaag]

I don't understand in this day and age why slide film would even be on anyone's radar. Unless you are projecting it, (or using it for some alt-process) slide film is nowhere near as versatile as neg film.

I partially agree with you -- as a capture medium, from a mathematical view of sensitometry and tone reproduction, negative film is inherently superior (i.e. allows you to choose the compression and contrast post-capture.) But as a presentation medium, nothing is more beautiful than a slide, IMO. The range of opacity can be 100 times greater than a print (i.e. Dmax = 2 for a print and Dmax = 4 for a slide). Henning mentioned several other benefits as well. If I could capture on color negative and make transparency prints, I believe this would represent the ultimate in quality (like how movies are made). But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a market for this, and the minimum order of 70 mm ECN and ECP film is very large.

So, what are people doing with slides these days?

I shoot medium format stereo (3D) views, and view them in a backlit handheld viewer. I believe it is the pinnacle in imaging. One look, and you would never again question why people use slide film
I share my stereo slides in two traveling folios, where other artists contribute slides to a folio box which circulates in Canada and the US. I don't share images online since there's really no way of viewing them in high quality.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Why should one hint at scanning in a analog thread (aside of uploading issues), more so in detail?

Well, for me, the reason 'why' was simply not paying close enough attention. That is, I failed to notice this is an analog thread. Again, I apologize, and I will check the category more closely before contributing next time.

On this thread, there is not just a "hint at scanning" - 10 other posts before mine mention scanning film. When I use my browser's Find tool to search for "scan" there are 49 matches on the first page of this thread, all before my comment on the second page. From the perspective of someone who came in on the middle of the conversation, I guess I am feeling a little picked-on because your 'analog only' comment was directed at me. I do want to follow forum guidelines, so I am trying to figure out what it was about my post that crossed the line, in some way that the previous 10 posts about scanning film did not.

 

[lantau]

With so few people doing optical enlargement of colour film, it is difficult to avoid the scan thing. I actually managed to print RA4 long before I managed the first really good inversion on the computer, thanks to the ongoing effort of a member here (a script for Photoshop and Affinity Photo).

IMHO colour negative film is for all practical purposes a digital film, and perhaps we should just ban its discussion from the analog section entirely.

 

[Anon Ymous]

...
IMHO colour negative film is for all practical purposes a digital film, and perhaps we should just ban its discussion from the analog section entirely.

I second that! The six people printing RA4 optically can be served by the chatroom as well.

Ok, joking aside, C41 films have their pros, dynamic range is one of them and processing availability is perhaps another. Lastly, there's the price gap, but this is getting narrower. IMHO, with Portra getting close to 10€ roll, I'd rather shoot E6, which looks spectacular anyway. And yes, I have a slide projector and regularly view a slideshow. And if I want a print, or share an image, I can always scan the slide and get considerably finer grain than when using C41. Ektar 100 gets fairly close to E6, but it's not a substitute IMHO.

 

[Chan Tran]

Nowaday that I don't have the darkroom any more it makes sense for me to use slide films. I have 3 perfectly good projectors and a bunch of lenses from 50mm to 300mm for the projectors.