color paper in b&w developer?

[BetterSense]

I like to use photo paper in ULF cameras. It's cheap and since it's so slow, it facilitates long exposures I'm doing for a project. The only problem is it's not panchromatic. Or even ortho.

Color paper is obviously panchromatic. I'm not interested in color information, but if I used color paper in-camera, what would I need to develop it in such that I could rephotograph it with pan film? I realize this sounds silly, but the ultra-large format is important for image geometry. Color paper might be an economical way to get cheap, slow, panchromatic "film".

What happens if you just develop color paper in b&w developer? I have a feeling there's not enough silver to develop a decent b&w image. There's no way I'm doing 100F development. I assume if I need color developer to develop dye. Can I put something in b&w developer that will develop the dye?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes, it works, but the image will be rather low contrast. At least, the ones I tested were. You also have to use a lot of filtration or you only get the blue record as it is about ISO 100 vs about 25 or less for the red record.

PE

 

[BetterSense]

I didn't think about color paper being somewhat "tungsten balanced".

 

[MartinP]

And of course, remember not to use a red safelight . . .

 

[johnielvis]

it works--the image is is very weak though--the max black is grey.

that being said, you can later tone or intensify to increase the dmax. This will take experimentation.

 

[johnielvis]

it works--the image is is very weak though--the max black is grey.

that being said, you can later tone or intensify to increase the dmax. This will take experimentation.

NOTE--you can buy (from ultrafine online) PANchromatic black and white paper-they cut sheets of the ilford digital silver for resale--it works as advertised--keep it in total darkness.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I didn't think about color paper being somewhat "tungsten balanced".

It is VERY tungsten balanced and may need a 100R or more to get the tones right.

PE

 

[Craig]

Is Ilforchrome still available? Might be a way to get a positive image right from the camera. Is it possible to reversal process RA4 paper to get a positive?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Craig, Ilfochrome in any B&W process will be black and in any color process will be black!

There are extensive discussions on cross processing RA4 paper here on APUG and on Photo Net. It can give spectacular results with the right transparency.

PE

 

[David Lyga]

I would like to hijack this thread with an impetuosness that probably will not cause rancor.


We speak of a difficiency here. But, perhaps, can 'less be more' in some instances? Indeed, there might be another way to approach this inability to create blackness.

There are subjects whose graphic portrayal thrives with the medium's inherent difficiencies:

1) charcoal drawings have less 'information' but can offer more 'information' in psychological terms

2) B&W prints exist where shadow detail in purposefully omitted in order to provoke depth and mystery (and is effective in doing so)

3) sometimes RA4 prints benefit when bleach is omitted for sake of replacing bold color with muted color

Thus, why not absense of B&W tonal depth for subjects which might benefit therefrom? There are subjects which naturally lend themselves to high-key effects such as scenes with intense atmospheric fog.

My purpose here is in expanding this concept by enquiring and seeking opinions as to other types of subjects and reasons for wanting to present such tonal deficiency as, instead, a vehicle for positive, dynamic, aesthetic impact.

In summation, can absence (inability, in the case of processing RA4 paper in B&W paper developer) of tonal depth beyond medium grey become beneficial, and, in its own right, attain status as a discrete genre? - David Lyga

 

[ajseier]

Color paper is obviously panchromatic. I'm not interested in color information, but if I used color paper in-camera, what would I need to develop it in such that I could rephotograph it with pan film?

If you're going to do this just to rephotograph on B&W pan film, could you not just process the paper regular RA-4 (assuming proper filtration)? You would be able to avoid the hassle of toning or intensifying, and I would think that the result would be largely the same.

 

[BetterSense]

Yes, but RA 4 is more complicated.