Color negative ECN2 processing problem.

koraks · Sep 25, 2023

Tai said:
the development temperature is 40.1 degrees C instead of 41.1, maybe because of that?

No, that won't result in uneven development.

Tai said:
I found this formula in a book

The formula isn't entirely as per Kodak's literature. See here, page 30 in the pdf (numbered page 7-28): https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...ssing-KODAK-Motion-Picture-Films-Module-7.pdf
The main deviation is the different amount of bicarbonate. Again, it's a relatively small difference and it won't result in the defect you report here. There are some other, smaller differences, but I don't think they would have any effect at all.

Tai said:
Yes, I'm sure, I did not stir it much, and I don't know why I left it so unstirred. Is that the cause of the problem?

That's possible, yes. I'd try another roll and agitate continuously, or at least every 30 seconds (but preferably continuously).

_T_ · Sep 25, 2023

Sometimes you can get marks like that from overagitation. Something about the flow rate of developer around the spools that hold the film can cause overdevelopment near where the spool holds the film. At least that's what happened to me. Halved all of my agitation times during development and they went away.

Tai · Sep 26, 2023

_T_ said:
Sometimes you can get marks like that from overagitation. Something about the flow rate of developer around the spools that hold the film can cause overdevelopment near where the spool holds the film. At least that's what happened to me. Halved all of my agitation times during development and they went away.

Understood, thanks!

koraks · Sep 26, 2023

But if your agitation so far was virtually nonexistent, I'd strongly suggest thinking in the opposite direction for now. More agitation. Not less.

Tai · Sep 26, 2023

koraks said:
但如果到目前为止你几乎不存在任何不安，我强烈建议你暂时朝相反的方向思考。更多的躁动。不低于。

Ok, will try, thanks, you helped me a lot.

koraks · Sep 26, 2023

Great; let us know how it pans out. I hope you'll het the problem fixed!

jad3675 · Sep 28, 2023

So I joined just to reply to this thread.
I was seeing similar issues with I developed 250D using C41. First roll I did had the same odd green banding, which I thought was a light leak in the cassette. 2nd and 3rd rolls I developed turned out fine. The 4th roll I did this past weekend had the green banding.
Looking over my notes, I noticed that my remjet pre-bath (home made - 20g Borax, 100g Sodium Sulfate, 1g Lye) was run at 102F on the ruined film. The two rolls that developed fine had the pre-bath at room temp, which after looking Kodak's literature should be run at 80F.
I'm not saying that it's 100% the cause, but to me it is too much of a coincidence to ignore.

koraks · Sep 28, 2023

@jad3675 thanks for joining Photrio and sharing your experiences!

However, the temperature of the pre-bath is entirely non-critical and it's very hard indeed to associate them at a theoretical level with the type of defect shown here. I believe the coincidence you noted is indeed just that - a coincidence.

jad3675 · Sep 28, 2023

koraks said:
@jad3675 thanks for joining Photrio and sharing your experiences!

However, the temperature of the pre-bath is entirely non-critical and it's very hard indeed to associate them at a theoretical level with the type of defect shown here. I believe the coincidence you noted is indeed just that - a coincidence.

Yeah, but...I just developed a roll using an ~80F pre-bath.

Film (vision3 250D) was shot at 500 with a Nikon F5 and 105mm macro lens. Used a 5600K led light.

Developed with Cinestill CS41 two-bath kit. This was the 10th roll on the 4 week old developer. It's stored in accordion style containers.

Scanned in with an Epson V600 with no adjustments.

Pre-bath was at 79F. Rinse after pre-bath was 5 rinses/10 second agitation with 400ml of 95F tap water.

Dev was at 102F for 5:26. 4 inversions every 30 second mark.

Bix was also at 102F for 8 minutes, 4 inversions every 30 seconds.

Final rinse was with the tank top off for 4 minutes. No photo-flo. Hung to dry for 3 hours.

Contact Sheet and sample images.

(http://imgur.com/a/yNQYMxN)
250D that didn't turn our so hot - contact sheet looks overcooked and the sample images have the green haziness.

(http://imgur.com/a/tZgiJCn)
I like to think I'm as consistent as I can be with my dev process and the only thing that changed was the pre-bath temperature. But yes, it doesn't make sense to me either.

koraks · Sep 28, 2023

Your "not so good" example looks like it might be retained silver or inconsistent agitation. I'd try to re-bleach and re-fix those negatives. If you're using blix, I'd recommend mixing fresh. Blix is a bit tricky especially if reused without replenishment, as Cinestill probably recommends. I frankly would not rely on an unreplenished and reused blix system for film (or paper, for that matter).

But there are several other possible causes for your defect.

In any case, I'd like to highlight that both the hue distribution and mostly the pattern of your defect is entirely different from that of the film of the original poster. Your problem seems to not be concentrated in a gradient along the edges of the film, which makes it really different.

Tai · Sep 28, 2023

你好，科拉克斯！我的另一个问题是，如果我使用硫酸作为停止浴，我需要担心氰化物吗？如果可以用乙酸代替，那么浓度是多少？在我所在的地区，您可以在超市轻松购买 75% 的醋酸。醋酸的作用和硫酸一样吗？

jad3675 · Sep 28, 2023

koraks said:
In any case, I'd like to highlight that both the hue distribution and mostly the pattern of your defect is entirely different from that of the film of the original poster. Your problem seems to not be concentrated in a gradient along the edges of the film, which makes it really different.

Fair enough - my apologies for littering in this thread.
Thanks for the pointer regarding the blix. I'll give that a try!

koraks · Sep 29, 2023

Tai said:
Hello Corax! My other question is if I use sulfuric acid as a stop bath do I need to worry about cyanide? If acetic acid can be used instead, what is the concentration? In my area you can easily buy 75% acetic acid in the supermarket. Does acetic acid have the same effect as sulfuric acid?

If you use a ferricyanide bleach, I would certainly rinse after the stop bath and before the bleach bath. Two changes of water with 30 to 60 seconds of washing each would do just fine. In my experience, acetic acid works just as well as sulfuric acid in this situation.

I'm actually surprised it's so easy to buy 75% acetic acid where you live; that's pretty strong! Please be very careful with it. A final concentration of something like 0.5% for a stop bath will be fine. The concentration is not critical. I always prefer to mix it fairly weak (the mentioned 0.5% or so) and then discard after use.

jad3675 said:
Fair enough - my apologies for littering in this thread.

Not at all! Your comments are welcome, indeed. Firstly, it's just me who believes it's a different effect and I can be wrong just like anyone else (and frequently, I am). Secondly, excluding causes involves going through things that are less likely just as well, so it's absolutely fine to mention them.

Your own problem has piqued my interest and I would like to see more examples of it and perhaps some good photos of the actual negatives (emulsion side). But perhaps it's better to do this in a separate thread. Feel free to open one!

Tai · Sep 29, 2023

我很抱歉，我不敢相信我把你的名字拼错了，我希望这对你没有那么无礼，抱歉。我明白了，谢谢。
当地用它来制作泡菜和罐头。

koraks said:
很惊讶你住的地方这么容易就能买到 75% 的东南

koraks · Sep 29, 2023

Tai said:
I'm sorry, I can't believe I spelled your name wrong, I hope it wasn't that rude to you, I'm sorry. I see, thank you.
It is used locally for making pickles and canning.

No worries, it's all good! And yes, properly diluted it should work fine for those purposes, as well as many other things. Very convenient they sell it in that form!

lamerko · Sep 29, 2023

Indeed, restrictions vary from country to country. Here in Bulgaria, for example, acetic acid 99.9% is sold practically freely and is very cheap (about $5/l). There is also 75%, but it is a little more complicated - it is sold only in 30 liter tubes, but if you still need such a quantity - there is no restriction. But I see no problem with the pure acid - as long as it is not handled at low temperatures when it crystallizes into a solid state.

Tai · Oct 2, 2023

我按照你的建议又开发了一卷，结果很满意，谢谢。

koraks · Oct 2, 2023

Tai said:
I developed another volume according to your suggestion, and I am very satisfied with the result, thank you.

Oh, that's great to hear! Well done, and thanks for reporting back!

Color negative ECN2 processing problem.

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