Color filter question

[cabledog]

I'm going to zion next weekend and want to use color filter to increase contrast in the desert for my black and white with pentax 67. Dominant colors are the orange and red earth with green trees scattered. I've read that orange can make the green foliage quite dark. Red is out of the question. But I also read that an x1 or 58 green filter is a nice balance for the southwest desert. So green or orange is the question.

 

[jim10219]

Experiment before you go or bring both and two shots of everything, one with each filter. You’ll likely find that different colors work best for different situations. The time of day and cloud cover can change things. And I wouldn’t say no to the red. Red 25 is my favorite filter for B&W desert work.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Try a yellow-green, it won't lighten the foliage quite as much as a green, nor darken like an orange. Experiment & take notes.

 

[cabledog]

So would a polarizer plus an orange 16 look similar to just a red 25a alone? stacking a polarizer on a 25a would be too dark wouldn't it?

 

[jim10219]

So would a polarizer plus an orange 16 look similar to just a red 25a alone? stacking a polarizer on a 25a would be too dark wouldn't it?

No. Colored filters change the relationship of brightness between colors. They allow colors in the scene that are similar to the color of the filter to appear brighter than normal, and colors in the scene that are opposite to the color of the filter to appear darker than normal.

A polarizer cuts down on polarized light. Basically, light from the sun is unpolarized. However, when that sunlight hits a reflective surface, some of ignored bounces off in a way that causes it to become polarized parallel to the surface of the object. So generally, a polarizer works best for things like the surface of a body of water, chrome or other highly reflective materials, and the atmosphere or sky.

So a polarizer can have a darkening effect on the sky, kind of like a red 25 filter, but only at certain angles in relation to the sun, and it won't have the effect applied as consistently across the sky. Furthermore, it won't have the same effect on foliage and other objects in the scene.

 

[pentaxuser]

I have always found the effect of a polariser to be pretty even when using any lens beyond a 28mm - even the latter might be OK. Yes the effect of a polariser plus an orange will reduce the light entering the lens but in the kind of sunny conditions I imagine you get in a desert, the exposures should still be hand-holdable. I managed a red plus polariser this way in early April in Cornwall, U.K. where even on a sunny day the sun is still not very intense. The combination in question produces a dark sky against white clouds

pentaxuser

 

[WilmarcoImaging]

Is it correct to assume you are using black and white film? If so what are your subjects? More importantly, what are your planned backgrounds?

If the earth (rocks, soil) are the background, green or blue (opposite of red) will bring up values of anything but red. Objects lit by the sky, assuming no directly sunlight, will be lifted in value. It seems you are seeking to avoid dark (black) tones for non-red objects. Is this correct?

If the images will include the sky, you have a balancing act or compromise to make. Lifting tones of green objects, additionally often raises blue values. With the sky in the background, it will tend towards white when using filters in the blue or green family. Think orthochromatic film. The traditional use of red, yellow or orange filters to lower sky values will also darken (tending towards black) green objects, which seems to be something you wish to avoid.

To your question: green and orange filters give somewhat opposite effects. If the sky is not in the image, the green filter would be my recommendation. If the sky is in the image, it is a tough choice, assuming you don't want the "white sky" effect.

 

[Paul Howell]

Living in the Desert past 30 years, I would go with a yellow and green depending on how much foliage. In shots with mostly rock and sand a yellow to orange brings out the texture of the rock, in shots with a lot of trees I would use the green. In extreme brightness I have also stacked a yellow with a polarizer or ND filter. This time of the year not so much of a problem, but in the summer with so much reflected light although bright the desert can be very low contrast and I increase development time by 10 to 20% to compensate.

 

[DREW WILEY]

A common problem in the desert is that you encounter quite a few reddish clay and sandstone hues which can end up looking weirdly pale using red, orange, or yellow filters. You might need these along for other things, but for trying to differentiate clouds in blue sky, while at the same time, rendering reddish soil tones naturally, a medium dark green filter is the ticket.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, if you use the term "Color Filter" many people are going to take you to be referring to filters that are intended to adjust the colour temperature of the light to match your film or, in some cases, filters that are generally suitable for colour films.
A much better thread title would be something like: "Suitable filter - desert scenes in black and white"