Color Film developed in Black and white chemistry

[Hell-on-a-stick]

I have experimented with color films developed in black and white chemistry, and I would like to compile all the information available into the 'Massive Dev Chart', if possible. They posted one of my time/temp combos for Kodak Ultramax 800, So if anyone is interested, I would like their data to post as well for other photographers to utilize. thanks!

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

*bump

 

[totalmotard]

Can you post a scan of your Ultramax developed as b&w? I like the grain of Ultramax, but not the color indoors. I've shot it and then converted it digitally to b&w, but I'd be interested to see it done chemically.

 

[Removed Account2]

Where are that Ultramax posted on Dig. Thruth? I looked in vain.....

I do most of my processing with C41 films nowadays, I use Caffenol and like to experiment with diffrenet brews (literally speaking!) but have done C41 with Rodinal also.
I think data without pictures is more or less valueless....

I have also done Ektacolor, Ektachrome, Kodachrome and old, old Kodacolor.... usually Caffenol assures results, if not great success.

EP

 

[hrst]

I like the grain of Ultramax, but not the color indoors. I've shot it and then converted it digitally to b&w, but I'd be interested to see it done chemically.

You cannot actually do THAT chemically by altering film development. If you want the exact grain of Ultramax, the right way would be to print it (normally developed) on a panchromatic B/W paper.

Color films have different grain from BW films because the final image is constructed from dye clouds instead of silver grains, dye clouds being bigger, softer and less opaque.

But, when you process a color film in BW chemistry, it gives a silver image just like any BW film. The grain will be very different than when processed in color. Of course, you can affect grain by developer selection etc. but that is true to any BW film, too.

In addition, color films processed as BW are usually very dense and thus hard to scan and slow to print.

If you are after a "color neg" look in the terms of grain in general and grain in highlights, choose a chromogenic BW film such as Kodak's BW400CN or Ilford's XP2 Super. They are processed in color process (C-41), yielding a image consisting purely of dye clouds just like color neg films, just that the only dye used is black in color (instead of cyan, magenta or yellow) so you have a BW image.

 

[hpulley]

I just don't get it, why not process it as color??? C41 isn't hard at all, I don't know why people say it is hard, just needs some temperature control.

 

[removed account4]

hi hpulley

i looked into processing with a c41 + e6 at home ..
i already have a rotary processor, a water jacket is ez &C
in the end i opted to process everything in coffee.
the main problem i have is disposal of the chemistry.
with black and white i have a waste hauler and silver recovery.
systems i use, but with color, well, i don't want deal with extra chemistry
and the hassle of disposal.

one of the problems with processing c41 ( or e6 ) film in b/w chemistry is the blue ( or yellow ) mask
which is a pita to print through, and since panalure paper doesn't exist well ...
one of the few options left for "printing" involves a hybrid workflow
( which we can't talk about here ).

 

[hpulley]

RA-4 is fine to print through the orange mask. Printing the orange mask to B&W paper is problematic but if you want to print B&W and use Caffenol-C then... I have to ask why you don't just shoot B&W film??? Kodak Ultramax 800 isn't really that cheap, I can get B&W film for that cheap. True, I can get expired color film more cheaply and easily than expired B&W film but if I'm going to print then I find the price of the film and film developer really isn't that much, it is the B&W printing paper that ends up costing me the most.

Anyways, sorry to intrude on your thread like that. I just can't understand why people don't use the various films for their intended purposes. If you like Ultramax 800 in Caffenol-C then carry on!

Does beg the question though, can I not just dump C41 chems down the drain? I didn't think it was bad like Selenium toner that I'd need to take to the hazardous waste depot but I can take it there if I need to. I need to take a load of batteries and stuff there anyways...

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

Here are a couple shots that I dev'd in Acufine. Please pardon the purple cast, its part of the process. I did not convert them to true black and white in photoshop yet.
there are also more instructions and examples of what i got out of this mess in my blog: http://thecrow-eyebarter-bin.blogspot.com/2010_05_01_archive.html

 

[removed account4]

hi hpulley

im not sure what the rules/regulations are where you live
i know what they are where i live, and they don't like anything
but "household waste" going through the system ...
( i don't use toners except for coffee, tea, and reed dyes either )

the only reason why i am using caffenol, is because
there are no labs left near me that can process any cn/e6 film that
is bigger than 35mm. i'd have to travel 80-120mins round trip / roll of 120
(35mm i can have the mini lab down the street do for me )
and 4x5, 5x7 film i would have to ship out of state and then be charged
4-5$ / 4x5 sheet and maybe double that for 5x7 .. ( that doesn't include shipping )
i don't mind saving the $$ seeing i have the b/w chemistry here already,
and at this point i use something else ( can't mention it here ) to shoot color
not to mention i have another scheme to have the coffee color images printed ...

sorry to hijack your thread hell on a stick, i wish i could add my times &C
for caffenol, but i use a different recipe which includes green coffee i roast myself,
and i figure digital truth doesn't want that sort of stuff ...
( sample chrome + cn images in my profile-album )

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

True. The Ultramax isnt very cheap. I picked up several rolls from a walgreens drugstore...they were going out of date and were listed for 1.66$ a roll. So i decided to play around. It was a great learning experience. And you are correct, the image quality, was not that of tri-x or even tmax, but it was unusual, so it indeed has a purpose. If i ever want this effect again, i know what i'll use.

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

you can always email your examples and results to www.caffienol.blogspot.com if you'd like to get them posted on-line...same with digital truth. they posted some of my 'strange' development processes, i can't see why they wouldn't take caffienol times and temps as well.

 

[removed account4]

you can always email your examples and results to www.caffienol.blogspot.com if you'd like to get them posted on-line...same with digital truth. they posted some of my 'strange' development processes, i can't see why they wouldn't take caffienol times and temps as well.

it seems that "the blog" doesn't want results from people who don't use "exact measurements"
and who roast their own coffeebeans, oh well, their loss ...

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

Well, i'll have to show them up. lol.

 

[Removed Account2]

I have experimented with color films developed in black and white chemistry, and I would like to compile all the information available into the 'Massive Dev Chart', if possible. They posted one of my time/temp combos for Kodak Ultramax 800, So if anyone is interested, I would like their data to post as well for other photographers to utilize. thanks!

I repeat my question : where are the data on Ultramax in the massive dev chart? I cannot find it!

I process C41 in Caffenol-CM and Caffenol-CI on a regular basis, like a couple of films every week, nothing special to it, I just develop it like B&W, the inherent quality of a compensating, fine-grained developer in caffenol with a high enough concentration of ascorbic acid, takes care of most everything, it seems.

The Caffenol-CI is my own concoction, since I had less than spectacular success with Caffenol-CL from the blog (too low pH for my taste), I came up with an intermediate variation that works fine :

Water to 1000ml
Soda 35 gram
Ascorbic Acid 10 gram
Instant Cofeee 40 gram

Should give a pH well above pH10 = good chemical activity, but still a little finer grain than Caffenol-CM.
I weigh my chemicals and have no problem with that. Since I also use a 1 tsp measure to weigh out, I have decided to count the teaspoons from now on and give data in both measurement systems, I have good experience since 1984 measuring out gunpowder with volumetric measures for my pistol and revolver handloads....

 

[removed account4]

erik

for months you have given use your recipes for caffenol
and how others who don't use the same preciseness of measurement don't get
very good results ..

can you please attach some "scans" of your results ?
an apug subscription ( to post in the gallery costs about the same as 1 cup of coffee, and
attaching to threads or to the albums on your profile page anyone can do )

I think data without pictures is more or less valueless....

EP

 

[Removed Account2]

I repeat my question : where are the data on Ultramax in the massive dev chart? I cannot find it!

 

[removed account4]

I repeat my question : where are the data on Ultramax in the massive dev chart? I cannot find it!

http://www.digitaltruth.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

 

[Removed Account2]

Thank you, I never thought of their forum.

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=&Developer=Acufine&mdc=Search

here is the link you requested, at the bottom of the page, you'll find Ultramax