Color darkroom books/materials?

[HandleyPhoto]

Hello!

After reading through Photographic Possibilities by Robert Hirsch and The Darkroom Cookbook I've found a huge appreciation for reading about the b/w film process. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for reading materials that are similar in nature but discuss the color darkroom rather than b/w.

Thank you,
-Jacob

 

[Paul Howell]

Wall and Jordan updated by Carroll Photographic Facts and Formulas 1975 edition has a few chapters, formulas for Anco Slides and Negatives, also Kodak E3,.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Almost everything in print is going to be very badly outdated in terms of specific films and papers, and how to use them today. You can pick up some general clues on technique, however, from things like the Kodak color printing guides. Old books and articles can be interesting from a historical perspective, concerning the evolution of color printing. Now there are web video tutorials - many of which you need to take with a grain of salt.

Basically, only the RA4 process is left in terms of a readily available darkroom color printing option. The fundamentals are easy to learn, and employ color negatives. Otherwise, all kinds of alternate paths to color shooting and printing have been revived, along with their own groups and discussions.

 

[HandleyPhoto]

@DREW WILEY
Thats unfortunate :/

I've learned a lot about color film photography from browsing this forum and by various other old internet blogs and have successfully managed to mix E-6, C-41, and RA-4. Still I just wish there was a more definitive guide as like you said everything must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[HandleyPhoto]

Wall and Jordan updated by Carroll Photographic Facts and Formulas 1975 edition has a few chapters, formulas for Anco Slides and Negatives, also Kodak E3,.

Thank you I'll have to take a look at this, seems interesting !

 

[Rudeofus]

When I started color processing at home some 15+ years ago, I had a few questions to Tetenal's customer support. They answered a few months later and were honestly surprised, that anyone would actually get into color processing in this very year, when everyone else screamed about the latest&greatest dSLRs from Canon&Nikon and the certain demise of color photography in general. While things have turned out much rosier than they were predicted back then, there is still no market for new books on this topic.

It took Bill years of full time work to bring together the materials for his Film Developing Cookbook, and from all I know this book is not exactly on NYT's best seller list. Translate this scenario to color photography, and you'd spend years writing a book for fewer than a dozen readers total. Not happening as far as I can see it.

So what is left for us? There's Grant Haist's and Ron Mowrey's "Modern Photographic Processing", which tells you at least the chemical background of color processes. This two volume book is out of print but may be available used or as download somewhere. There's Bob Shanebrook's Making Kodak Film, which I have not read myself yet, but there were glaring and credible reviews here on photrio. There are several articles here on photrio with formulas and procedures for the more practically inclined.

I would rather stay away from older literature, since processes were very different from today's C-41, E-6 and RA-4. These old processes had to deal with unhardened emulsions. These old emulsions worked with much more primitive couplers (oily vs. balasted), which required special processing chems (e.g. Benzyl Alcohol) in their developers. Since Kodak graciously published detailed formulas in their Kodachrome patents, there will be endless coverage of this now obsolete process. Lots of effort was necessary (and described in great detail in these old books) in processing, which are complete non-issues with today's materials and will likely cause more confusion than clarity in this year's readers.

It is not entirely clear, where and how far you want to take this journey. Do you just want to get better results with your home processing? Start your own home brew op? Try to optimize the chemistry? There will be very different paths laid out for each target destination, and no single book will cover everything in detail.

 

[HandleyPhoto]

@Rudeofus

Short term I want to optimize the formulas I've been mixing and then expand to larger formats and make some beautiful images. Additionally, I'm the lab aide for my university's darkroom and have been trying to bring these color processes back for students as the only classes we've been offering for as long as I've been a student are b/w development/printing and experimental printing from digital negatives(i.e. cyanotypes, van dyke, etc.). Been trying to do it cheaply and buying dry chems in bulk and homebrewing is by far the cheapest way. I have a decent grasp on how everything works in the different color processes mechanically but I want to easily explain to my peers how everything works without confusing them and I find the best way to do that is by learning as much as there is to know. Long term I would maybe want to open up my own lab eventually or go onto to teach in higher education so I really want to understand how these color processes work on a fundamental level and be able to explain it.

I came across Shinsaku Fujita's Organic Chemistry of Photography around a year ago now and it was an interesting read however a majority of it was completely outside my understanding since I've only taken basic college level chemistry. I definitely plan on revisiting it once I take supplementary chemistry courses but Modern Photographic Processing and Making Kodak Film sound like exactly what I'm after.

Thank you!

 

[laser]

Thanks for the kind words about my book "Making KODAK Film". See

www.makingKODAKfilm.com

 

[Rudeofus]

This definitely sounds like an interesting project. Precede any book you read with a high school chemistry book, unless you know off hand, what a redox reaction really does, what "pH 10.2" and "pKa1 8.8" really mean and what a complex stability constant really tells you. However, while Haist's book will give you an idea of the chemistry behind negative and positive processes, it contains few usable formulas and no hands on instructions "if you negatives look like this, then do that to remedy the problem".

After you fully understand, how C-41 and E-6 processes work chemically, how these films are layered and what each of their bathes do, I recommend you study the "Control chart examples" Kodak provides for C-41 and E-6. If you understand the chemistry at work for these two processes, then you will quickly find the equivalent of "too little FD starter" with the mixing errors you will likely make with your home brew chemistry. It's not trivial, but it's doable. Oh, and also make sure you have a decent scanner handy, which allows you to determine densitometric results. Also familiarize yourself with subtractive colors, as in "which layer did FD over/underdevelop, if your slides look magenta?".

 

[laser]

Hello!

After reading through Photographic Possibilities by Robert Hirsch and The Darkroom Cookbook I've found a huge appreciation for reading about the b/w film process. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for reading materials that are similar in nature but discuss the color darkroom rather than b/w.

Thank you,
-Jacob

I suggest the KODAK Color Darkroom Guide R-19 that I have listed in photrio.com classified ads for a description of how to process various modern color materials. I now see you are from the EU so shipping cost may be an issue. You should be able to find one in the EU. If you buy "Making KODAK Film" from me I'll throw it in for $5.

 

[mshchem]

'Printing Color Negatives' - 1978 Kodak Instruction Book | eBay

"Printing Color Negatives" is a 72-page Kodak guide from 1978, sixth edition. Book is in excellent condition - sections on Kodak films and printing techniques. Ships freight free. Thanks!

www.ebay.com

 

[mshchem]

Kodak Color Darkroom Dataguide 9780879856113 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kodak Color Darkroom Dataguide at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[mshchem]

I recommend skipping reading much other than the MSDS, get a couple trays and a microwave to heat up the developer and blix (RA-4) turn off the lights and start to print. Buy 10 L Kodak Ektacolor chemistry or equivalent and start printing (assuming you have a colorhead or filters) . If you stick to 1 emulsion, either Portra or Ektar, don't mess with any other color film, once you dial in filtration it will be easier than black and white.
If you have a neighborhood photo lab that is reliable you can let them develop your film to start.
I love color c-41, E-6 RA-4.
PS there's no such thing as a safe, color safelight.

 

[koraks]

I recommend skipping reading much other than the MSDS

For a pragmatic approach to just get rolling, yes. But there's this:

Long term I would maybe want to open up my own lab eventually or go onto to teach in higher education so I really want to understand how these color processes work on a fundamental level and be able to explain it.

And in that light, some (thorough) reading would make sense, as would a class or two in organic chemistry. I don't know the accessibility of higher education for @HandleyPhoto, but I'd recommend looking into this and starting by building a bit of a basis in chemistry. Then use that knowledge to interpret sources like the already mentioned Fujita book.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Commercial color chemistry formulas contain ingredients not mentioned on MSDS sheets. Only hazardous or irritation ingredients are required to be cited, and not even all of those if trade secrets apply. But formulas like RA4, C41, and E6 are pretty much in the public domain now, except certain special tweaks.

 

[Rudeofus]

And in that light, some (thorough) reading would make sense, as would a class or two in organic chemistry. I don't know the accessibility of higher education for @HandleyPhoto, but I'd recommend looking into this and starting by building a bit of a basis in chemistry. Then use that knowledge to interpret sources like the already mentioned Fujita book.

While current photo chemistry looks a lot like organic chemistry, lots of its underlying principles are actually taught in anorganic chemistry: redox reactions, acid/base reactions, redox potential, law of mass action, complexes and their stability. These are the reactions driving your development, bleach or fixation processes, and in the end it almost doesn't matter, whether you oxidize Fe2+ or Hydroquinone.

Organic chemistry would add the extremely wide field of organic synthesis, which as interesting as it may be will add little to your color processing. If your E-6 process yields dark slides, you change activity of FD and do not synthesize new color developers or modify color couplers.

 

[HandleyPhoto]

I was able to find the 1st and 2nd volume of Modern Photographic Processes at my University library and have begun reading the first volume. This is exactly what I was looking for so thank you @Rudeofus.

I do plan on taking some supplemental chem courses after I finish my undergrad in photo this year as I now realize how rusty my chemistry knowledge is. However the book does have a quick refresh in its first chapter which was very useful as a jumping off point.

 

[HandleyPhoto]

I recommend skipping reading much other than the MSDS, get a couple trays and a microwave to heat up the developer and blix (RA-4) turn off the lights and start to print. Buy 10 L Kodak Ektacolor chemistry or equivalent and start printing (assuming you have a colorhead or filters) . If you stick to 1 emulsion, either Portra or Ektar, don't mess with any other color film, once you dial in filtration it will be easier than black and white.
If you have a neighborhood photo lab that is reliable you can let them develop your film to start.
I love color c-41, E-6 RA-4.
PS there's no such thing as a safe, color safelight.

Heating color chemicals in the microwave sounds crazy, but something that I will totally try if I ever have a spare microwave. I usually use a tempering bath by using an electric kettle which can lead to some unpredictability. I plan on getting a sous vide eventually to create proper tempering baths

Thank you for the guidebook suggestions ! I will keep a lookout for them

 

[HandleyPhoto]

To everyone else, thank you for contributing I really appreciate everyone's input on the matter

 

[mshchem]

Heating color chemicals in the microwave sounds crazy, but something that I will totally try if I ever have a spare microwave. I usually use a tempering bath by using an electric kettle which can lead to some unpredictability. I plan on getting a sous vide eventually to create proper tempering baths

Thank you for the guidebook suggestions ! I will keep a lookout for them

15 seconds here and there. I worked for a division of Raytheon a couple decades ago. Raytheon was big in microwave, everything from proximity fuses, radar, cooking etc. We produced, long since spun off, the industrial models used to produce pre-cooked ready to serve bacon. IIRC there was a 4 inch pipe to drain the drippings away. I have a field test microwave that I got gratis. I've been using it for over 20 years, perfect for warming demineralized water for preparing XTOL and other powders.
It's no different than heating tea, just need to be careful, I have a dedicated microwave in my darkroom. I admit I occasionally warm up my coffee.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Interesting. Where I worked, we were a major supplier to Raytheon's presence in the Pacific Ocean. But the defense contractor industry requires specialist salesmen, and when they all got old and retired, our Govt and military Sales Dept was shut down. I prefer a little toaster oven in my own darkroom - deepest DMax imaginable on test strips if you leave it on long enough!