Color correction for Rollei Digibase CR200?

[StorminMatt]

I actually finally got around to shooting a roll of Rollei Digibase CR200 a few weeks back. I had somewhat high hopes for this film, since I have heard that it is probably the closest E6 to Kodachrome. But the slides I got back were quite yellow. This seems to be rather common with this film, and is supposedly the result of the film being intended for aerial photography. But I couldn't find anything in terms of what people are doing to correct this yellow cast. Might some sort of cooling filter work? And if anyone has actually found a filter that corrects this yellow cast, what specific filter was it that you used?

 

[keithwms]

I've not heard it was for aerial- interesting. I have a high-altitude filter but it is a slightly warming filter.

My impression is that most use this film and its CN companion for scanning... in which case shooting a color target and then making the necessary adjustments is quite easy. Why not shoot a color separation chart under the light you like, using your best guess filters, and take it from there. I'd be interesting in seeing your results, and some detail crops.

If you liked Kodachrome then let me suggest Astia 100F.

 

[StorminMatt]

I've not heard it was for aerial- interesting. I have a high-altitude filter but it is a slightly warming filter.

As I understand it, because Digibase CR200 was made for aerial use, the film itself was made overly warm so that no color correction filter would be needed when used for this purpose. However, I'm guessing some sort of cooling filter will probably be needed for it to look acceptable for normal photography.

If you liked Kodachrome then let me suggest Astia 100F.

I've tried Astia. And at least to my eyes, it doesn't look much like Kodachrome. To me, it looks ALOT more like desaturated Velvia than it does Kodachrome. Of course, this is probably because it is made by, well, Fuji. I personally think E100G looks ALOT more like Kodachrome than Astia does. Besides, last I heard, Astia has gone the way of Kodachrome.

 

[keithwms]

As I understand it, because Digibase CR200 was made for aerial use, the film itself was made overly warm so that no color correction filter would be needed when used for this purpose. However, I'm guessing some sort of cooling filter will probably be needed for it to look acceptable for normal photography.



I've tried Astia. And at least to my eyes, it doesn't look much like Kodachrome. To me, it looks ALOT more like desaturated Velvia than it does Kodachrome. Of course, this is probably because it is made by, well, Fuji. I personally think E100G looks ALOT more like Kodachrome than Astia does. Besides, last I heard, Astia has gone the way of Kodachrome.

Astia is still available in all sizes from Japan and at reasonable prices. I recently got some 220 that way.

That's interesting about the CR200. Not sure why they'd bother making an aerial film at this stage though, I'll contact them and see if they'll sell me a bulk roll!

 

[StorminMatt]

That's interesting about the CR200. Not sure why they'd bother making an aerial film at this stage though, I'll contact them and see if they'll sell me a bulk roll!

As far as I know, it's an old Agfa film. So I figure it's something that was originally made decades ago.

 

[tomalophicon]

As far as I know, it's an old Agfa film. So I figure it's something that was originally made decades ago.

Maybe not old, as AGFA is still in the aerial film business.
http://www.agfa.com/sp/global/en/internet/main/solutions/aerialphotography/index.jsp

It's most likley AVIPHOT Chrome.
http://www.agfa.com/sp/global/en/binaries/AVIPHOT CHROME 200_tcm611-42591.pdf

Colour rendering
A UV filter prevents colour shifts and unsharpness due to UV radiation. An interlayer prevents the diffusion of unwanted colour dyes form one sensitive layer into another. So, the colours are well separated and the colour saturation is very good. Aviphot Chrome 200 is suitable for a colour temperature of 5500K.

 

[DarkMagic]

Astia is still available in all sizes from Japan and at reasonable prices. I recently got some 220 that way.

That's interesting about the CR200. Not sure why they'd bother making an aerial film at this stage though, I'll contact them and see if they'll sell me a bulk roll!

From where are you buying it in 220?

 

[keithwms]

From where are you buying it in 220?

http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=243

 

[StorminMatt]

I just thought I would attach a couple of scans here. The scans are unaltered, and you can clearly see the 'yellowness' of the images. Notice how it even tends to turn the sky green in the picture of the tree. What's also kind of interesting is that the yellowishness is supposedly intended to counteract the blueness of high altitude shots. Yet both of these pics were taken at significant altitude (about 8000ft in the first, over 10000ft in the second).

 

[MattKing]

Matt:

I don't think the colour cast in those is just yellow - I think there is a fair bit of green as well.

 

[bob100684]

I just thought I would attach a couple of scans here. The scans are unaltered, and you can clearly see the 'yellowness' of the images. Notice how it even tends to turn the sky green in the picture of the tree. What's also kind of interesting is that the yellowishness is supposedly intended to counteract the blueness of high altitude shots. Yet both of these pics were taken at significant altitude (about 8000ft in the first, over 10000ft in the second).

If the yellow balance is to minimize blue casts when shooting at altitude, it doesn't mean taking the shot at 8 or 10 thousand feet, it means shooting through 8 or 10 thousand feet of atmosphere. I'm somewhat glad to see though that I'm not the only one getting a huge yellow cast, I really thought my roll had been misprocessed somehow.

 

[StorminMatt]

I'm somewhat glad to see though that I'm not the only one getting a huge yellow cast, I really thought my roll had been misprocessed somehow.

I guess the big question is, have you found a filter that works well at giving a more neutral color balance?

 

[bob100684]

I guess the big question is, have you found a filter that works well at giving a more neutral color balance?

To be honest, I haven't tried. I shot a few rolls and then pretty much gave up. It looks pretty decent when crossprocessed though.

 

[richydicky]

I've just shot my first roll of this. In general colour balance good, white snow is a pretty good test and did not experience overall yellow cast although in a few frames there are odd yellow bands, see the second attached photo. The lab offered to re-fix but it was just a test film so I didn't bother. So maybe the film is sensitive to the fixing stage, (they showed me another film from the same processing batch and it was fine) or there is some sort of manufacturing fault. I'm not up on E6 processing so can't judge.

 

[OzJohn]

I know nothing of this film but if has a built-in colour bias and if it is being sold for general pictorial use surely the sponsors should provide some data regarding suitable filters to remove the cast? Out of curiousity I applied the white eyedropper in PS levels to the scans from Bob100684 and got pretty good colour. Now I fully realise that this not of much use where the end product is a tranny and also that this is an analogue forum but PS is a great video colour analyser and this quick and dirty experiment indicates that the colour can be easily corrected. If there is not a readily available filter, a pack could be crafted using gelatin CC filters if you can get hold of them. Whether it's all worth it when there are still quite a few excellent tranny films on the market is another issue. OzJohn

 

[ME Super]

photoshop mireds

I also realize this is an analog forum, but if photoshop will tell you how many mireds it adjusted the picture, and which color, you could then figure out which filter to use to correct it as the mired values can be found for most color correction filters. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find anything that will tell you what adjustment the software uses so you can apply it to your photos in an analog fashion for your transparencies.

 

[ME Super]

gimp mireds

For a purely analog method, get yourself a set of Wratten blue filters and peer through those until you see one that gets rid of the yellow. Then use that filter.

I didn't find anything for Photoshop but I did find a plug-in for GIMP that is supposed to do color temperature conversion, if you don't mind digital. Install GIMP from gimp.org if you don't already have it, then go to Dead Link Removed and download colortemp.scm. Put it in the C:\Program Files\GIMP-2.0\share\gimp\2.0\scripts folder, then if GIMP is already running, restart it, otherwise start GIMP and load up your image. You'll find the color temperature conversion under Filters->Colors->Color Conversion. Once you have the color the way you like it, convert the color temps to their MIRED values, subtract one from the other, and there's your filtration.

ME Super

 

[Raphael]

My own CR200 test

Hi all,

I am somewhat happy that I am not alone to experience heavy yellow shift with this film, I think initially something was wrong, with my Tetenal E6 kit, or my Jobo processing of this particular roll.

Here is an exemple, from this roll, taken in April 2011.

The result is rather unusual but not totally unpleasant to me. But this rendering is not suitable for all photography, I think.

However, I am suprised by the pictures that richydicky shows us, they have no or very minimal colour cast, and they seems much more "clear" than mine, I don't know how to explain it.

The one's from StorminMatt are closers in term of rendering.


Best regards,

Raphael

 

[ntenny]

I've used it a bit and got a definite yellow shift, but nothing like as extreme as some of the examples from this thread. It varies a lot with the lighting, though. Two examples attached---one shows a distinct yellow cast, the other hardly any. (The light in the first really was pretty warm, but the film exaggerates it.)

-NT

 

[AgX]

Maybe not old, as AGFA is still in the aerial film business.
http://www.agfa.com/sp/global/en/internet/main/solutions/aerialphotography/index.jsp

It's most likley AVIPHOT Chrome.
http://www.agfa.com/sp/global/en/binaries/AVIPHOT CHROME 200_tcm611-42591.pdf

Colour rendering
A UV filter prevents colour shifts and unsharpness due to UV radiation. An interlayer prevents the diffusion of unwanted colour dyes form one sensitive layer into another. So, the colours are well separated and the colour saturation is very good. Aviphot Chrome 200 is suitable for a colour temperature of 5500K.

It is old in the meaning of a late emulsion they used in their consumer range being used in their aerial range too.

 

[AgX]

Agfa RXS II 200 was released in 1996. And stayed in the range of Agfa "Professional" films until the end of the consumer division 2004/2005. Seemingly still alive as Aviphot Chrome in their non-consumer division.

 

[j.c.denton]

I recently ordered some rolls of it in 120 to try it out, which I did last weekend. I am currently thinking about what lab to choose as those PET based films are said to be picky when it comes to developement and potential light leeks.

Concerning the color temperature: if you have Photoshop Elements (or a professional CS version) at hand, you can open TIF and JPG files as RAW files, which gives you a color temperature slider and a green/magenta slider for relative adjustments. It works quite well, albeit not as precisely as using RAW files (which allows for absolut color temperature adjustments). To do so, use the "open as" command in the file menu and change the file type drop down menu to the file extension you are going to open, e.g. JPG.

I have an AGFA RSX II IT8 target from W. Faust. Curious to see whether it does any good. But I'll probably have to wait at least a week for the developement of the film even when I send it out today.

Best wishes,
Christian

 

[Siegi Niedermair]

Two years ago, I bought 20 rolls of CR 200 (35mm). It was a real disappointment that the slides came back with a strong yellow-green cast plus they were very grainy. Blaming it on the lab I went to another lab, same result. Since then they are sitting in my fridge. It looks almost like a cross processed color neg film. I will try one in C-41.
All my slides are for projection, 35mm and MF.
Best regards,
Siegi

 

[Athiril]

I actually finally got around to shooting a roll of Rollei Digibase CR200 a few weeks back. I had somewhat high hopes for this film, since I have heard that it is probably the closest E6 to Kodachrome. But the slides I got back were quite yellow. This seems to be rather common with this film, and is supposedly the result of the film being intended for aerial photography. But I couldn't find anything in terms of what people are doing to correct this yellow cast. Might some sort of cooling filter work? And if anyone has actually found a filter that corrects this yellow cast, what specific filter was it that you used?

Can also be from the process itself not being within aim values of the control strips.

 

[BMbikerider]

Digibase ES slide film

Attached are 5 images all scanned at 72dpi and preset to give a 5x7 inch print, but the smaller sunset one with the single tree was set to give an A3 print and small section taken from close to the centre. There has been no corrections made on the images after scanning they are what there is there

The film was processed using the times I put on this thread earlier and I personally don't think that they are too 'warm' or yellow. Yes, there is still grain especially on the sectioned A3 print but I don't think it is too objectionable - what do you think?

I will say they are MUCH better when projected, you always loose some quality when scanning.