Color 4x5 interiors - what film or filter?

[Jeff Bannow]

Don't know if this is the right forum for this or not ...

I have a project coming up that will require me to shoot 4x5 color interior shots. They will be on negative film, and I don't see any tungsten film available in 4x5 any more. I only need to do these 4 and am not looking to invest in a color meter and thousands of dollars in gear.

So, my dilemma is that they will be shot in bedrooms using mostly available light. I can change out the light bulbs, but as they are regular lamps what would be a good option for a bright daylight bulb that isn't $30 a piece? I understand that the bulbs at Target won't cut it.

There will be people on the shots and I would like lots of DOF. I am a little concerned about shutter speeds - I definitely don't want to go below 1 second, and will need to capture people standing in the frame so I would think I need something quite a bit faster.

So, should I use tungsten light and filter it? Shoot it as is and try to color correct later? Move to medium format and shoot tungsten film? Bag it all and go shoot landscapes?

Thanks!

 

[Resoman]

Available light, 4x5 interiors, with lots of depth of field and short shutter speeds? What makes you think this is possible?

I've shot a lot of 4x5 color interiors - I used all kinds of tungsten light and still the exposures typically ran several seconds.

Do you have access to a lot of strobe equipment? Strobes would solve the subject movement issue, and give you a lot of film choices. Going to medium format would increase the effective depth of field.

Gary,
East Snook, TX

 

[nickandre]

If you shoot slide film there is one tungsten film, Kodak 64T or the now discontinued Fuji 64T. Otherwise shoot something like Kodak 400NC using an 80A filter to correct. Meter through that filter or apply whatever filter correction it needs to the reading without it. You could try bringing in fleets of clip lights to bring up the light level significantly and filling in dark areas. Indoor light is usually crappy. Once you have even tungsten light it should be easy to convert it to daylight using the on camera filter. I wouldn't stop down too much. Use a wide angle lens to increase DOF and an aperture of F16-F22 or something like that.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Available light, 4x5 interiors, with lots of depth of field and short shutter speeds? What makes you think this is possible?

I've shot a lot of 4x5 color interiors - I used all kinds of tungsten light and still the exposures typically ran several seconds.

Do you have access to a lot of strobe equipment? Strobes would solve the subject movement issue, and give you a lot of film choices. Going to medium format would increase the effective depth of field.

Gary,
East Snook, TX

It might not be. My plan was to put 150w bulbs into the lamps and then add some home made hot lights to add more light. I'd like to keep times to a minimum, but I definitely can't go past 1 second.

Ideally I would find some nice good high powered daylight bulbs. Strobes aren't really an option because I want it to look lit from the lamps themselves.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

If you shoot slide film there is one tungsten film, Kodak 64T or the now discontinued Fuji 64T. Otherwise shoot something like Kodak 400NC using an 80A filter to correct. Meter through that filter or apply whatever filter correction it needs to the reading without it. You could try bringing in fleets of clip lights to bring up the light level significantly and filling in dark areas. Indoor light is usually crappy. Once you have even tungsten light it should be easy to convert it to daylight using the on camera filter. I wouldn't stop down too much. Use a wide angle lens to increase DOF and an aperture of F16-F22 or something like that.

I was thinking of using my 65mm lens and aiming for f16 or so. The rooms will all be standard bedroom size.

So if I load up 150w compact flourescent bulbs into the lamps, and add clip lights and floor lamps and whatever I can cobble together, I should be able to put a 80A filter on and be good to go?

 

[archphoto]

What I am thinking about are those slave-flashes that you can crew into a light socket.
Never used them though.

Did most of my shooting on 4x5 with both Agfa and Fuji T films, nowaday's I am relying on silicon type of medium.

Peter

 

[Q.G.]

So if I load up 150w compact flourescent bulbs into the lamps, and add clip lights and floor lamps and whatever I can cobble together, I should be able to put a 80A filter on and be good to go?

No.
Fluorescent lights need more filtering than a simple colour temperature correction.
It's a rather complex matter, depending a lot on what brand and type of fluorescent bulb you are using, and it may be very hard to find the correct filtering (though a good approximation will be possible).

It will be almost completely impossible to use both fluorescent bulbs and other, incandescent lights and get good colour.
(You would need to filter either all fluorescent bulbs or all incandescent bulbs individually to match the one type to the other.)
Add a bit of daylight, and the chaos is complete.

Best way is to use no filter, flash and a long enough shutter speed for the incandescent lights to register. These will be too warm, but that will suit the mood.
Any daylight present will match the flash, and not look out of place.

 

[nyoung]

Strobes aren't really an option because I want it to look lit from the lamps themselves.

I've successfully created that look with old Vivitar 2000 battery powered strobes - GN around 80 IIRC - attached to Wein peanut slaves and gaffer taped to the lamps inside the shades.

I've never had a successful experience with flouresent lights and color film of any kind.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

I was thinking of replacing all of the bulbs in the scene with flourescents. It will be at night so there are no worries about daylight. Any thoughts on what filter might get me close enough to be able to get a good print?

 

[Q.G.]

An FL-D filter would be a good start. But it would only be a general guess, a stab in the dark.
Like said before, filtering of fluorescent bulbs is a complex matter, requiring not just correction of colour temperature, but also the filtration of peaks that overlay the spectrum. And both colour temperature and those peaks depend on brand and type of fluorescent bulb.

So not a good idea.

It would be far better/easier to use regular incandescent bulbs. They will vary in colour temperature too, depending on brand and type/wattage (and age). But only in colour temperature. No funny, hard to correct colour casts as well.

Better still would be what you said you do not want: use flash.
Flash (not a camera mounted single unit, but carefully positioned and 'directed') to provide a basic light level. And a long enough exposure (does not have to be long) to punch the existing (incandescent) room lights in. You'll capture the mood of the existing lighting, but without too long exposure times and without too complex filtering.

 

[nickandre]

You can find tungsten balanced fluorescent bulbs. Not perfect, sometimes slightly colder than actual tungsten bulbs, but very passable. For best results use actual tungsten bulbs. With the 80A you'll have an effective ISO of 100 IIRC, at F16. Try it. Have fun. Good luck.

 

[AZLF]

I think you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment trying to do this job as you describe. I did a lot of interiors back in the day on 4x5" film and we achieved a natural look on site using daylight film and strobes. Big ones. Usually two but sometimes three. Aimed at walls and ceilings out of the frame. The "lamps" that were visible in the shots were actually the small screw in slaves that gave a very good impression of a normally lit lamp.

We shot furniture and "office" sets in the studio using quartz light and it was a big studio with a 16' infinity back. We had several 1000 watt lamps with diffusers and even using all of them the exposures were in the several second range.

I doubt that you can get a normally lit daylight scene with people in it fully lit in a second at a small f-stop and I doubt further that what you get even after several seconds with the small wattage lamps you describe will be even close to a normally lit scene.

Borrow a bunch a strobes and save yourself a lot of problems. And borrow if you do not own a dslr to "polaroid" the scene first. You'll see what I mean.

 

[removed account4]

hi jeff

i agree with azlf ..
you will need a ton of light
and even then it will be way more than 1 second ...

i have shot a fair amount of interior with available light,
mostly factory interiors with clerestory monitor (roof) windows (a ton of light). i used fuji 160.
i shot between f16 and f22 between 20 and 45 second exposures with a 65mm lens.

using a 80A filter will increase your time by 2 ...

good luck!

john

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Okay, I think I might be able to borrow some studio lights so I guess that is the route. I have fujiroid film and a back for the 4x5. I have Fuji 160s 4x5 for film.

I can handle the studio lights as I have done that before. However, I have never heard of these lamp adapter lights. Does anyone have a link or a name so I could do some research on them?

 

[AZLF]

Okay, I think I might be able to borrow some studio lights so I guess that is the route. I have fujiroid film and a back for the 4x5. I have Fuji 160s 4x5 for film.

I can handle the studio lights as I have done that before. However, I have never heard of these lamp adapter lights. Does anyone have a link or a name so I could do some research on them?

I can't think of the name for them either right now but check ebay under flashes. I've seen them there many a time. But any small flash with an optical slave on it set at low power and taped inside the lampshade at the approximate height would probably do the job. It's too bad you are not local. I have all of the stuff you'd need including the screw in slave.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

I can't think of the name for them either right now but check ebay under flashes. I've seen them there many a time. But any small flash with an optical slave on it set at low power and taped inside the lampshade at the approximate height would probably do the job. It's too bad you are not local. I have all of the stuff you'd need including the screw in slave.

I appreciate the input. Which of these looks best?

AC slave flashes at B&H

Does this look powerful enough? They aren't adjustable but I guess I could lay tissue over the top or something to dim them down. I would screw these into the light sockets, then use strobes to light the room itself. Here is what I have access to:

"three photogenic 320 W/s strobes with the stands, two umbrellas one soft box and a pair of pocket wizards"

I also have a regular camera flash (Vivitar 283 I think) if needed.

 

[AZLF]

Does this look powerful enough? They aren't adjustable but I guess I could lay tissue over the top or something to dim them down. I would screw these into the light sockets, then use strobes to light the room itself. Here is what I have access to:

"three photogenic 320 W/s strobes with the stands, two umbrellas one soft box and a pair of pocket wizards"

I also have a regular camera flash (Vivitar 283 I think) if needed.[/QUOTE]

Yep. That looks just like what we used and the one I have now. I think three 320 ws unit's will suffice. We did not use umbrellas or soft box. Just bare bulb reflecting off ceiling and walls. Or directed into the frame from outside if the walls and ceiling color was going to screw things up.You'll be on the scene so you can decide after a little roid use what will work best but it sounds like you've got the right tools to get the job done right.

Good luck.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Any suggestions on which of all these would be best?

AC slave flashes at B&H

I figure I'll probably need 3 or 4 of them in total. I guess I would be looking for the widest angle and the lowest guide # for the most power, right?

 

[AZLF]

Oops. I'm sorry I didn't see all the different models at first. The cheapest one will do just fine. The ones we used looked more like the second cheapest but either one will do nicely.

AC slave flashes at B&H

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Excellent. I appreciate the help. Looks like this should get me going.

I guess it is time for me to buy my own flash gear already!

 

[Jeff Bannow]

One last question - looking I see 2 units that are listed at 180 degree coverage.

One is $25, from SP-Systems and is listed at 40 @ 100 ISO
The other is $50, from Morris and is listed at 26 @ 100 ISO

Go with the cheaper ones or will I want the Morris units further down the line?

 

[Jeff Bannow]

Unless anyone has a better suggestion, I am going to go with the cheap ones and hope for the best.

 

[AZLF]

Unless anyone has a better suggestion, I am going to go with the cheap ones and hope for the best.

I'm sure the cheap ones will do the job. And I have found them handy to have for a little extra "fill" here and there over the years.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

I'm sure the cheap ones will do the job. And I have found them handy to have for a little extra "fill" here and there over the years.

Excellent. Thanks again.

 

[Jeff Bannow]

First shot with the lighting setup:

This is a pretty rough scan, but it looks like it worked pretty well. Thanks everyone!