Collodion Printing Out Paper

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Keo

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Hello folks.

I recently been looking into branching out in Alternative Processes after doing mostly Kallitypes and Salt Prints. I like salt prints for the simplicity of it and it allows me a minimal darkroom space. Kallitypes are a little more involved and require multiple different baths that is a bit messy when I use a single tray workflow. I've been looking at methods of streamlining silver images into a single emulsion, ie no sensitization needed, and naturally fell on silver gelatin emulsions. While I was reading up I stumbled across Collodion-Chloride by Mr. Osterman. Watching the one video series on the process, YouTube, the workflow is exactly what I want to do. With this explanation out of the way I have a few questions.

It is suggested to use Baryta paper or a thick gelatin sizing. I'm not against acquiring my own Barium Sulfate and making up the gelatin emulsion to coat papers (Via the Light Farm formula). From what I understand the compound isn't worse than other pigments I've worked with in oil painting (making my own paints). However, because I am about minimalism what sort of gelatin sizing should I use; if there are alternative, ready-made, papers I can use like Yupo?

The suggested salt to make the silver halide is Strontium Chloride. Would other salts used in emulsion making...well be useable? I guess to simplify the question is does Strontium Nitrate contribute to the process when the emulsion is made?

This next question is more subjective; which process of gelatin based POP and collodion based POP looks good to you in person? Are there any qualities over one compared to the other? etc.

For those that are interested in why I'm choosing Collodion as the colloid. Many of the gelatin emulsions I've come across from royalty free books apparently use active gelatins, which are no longer made. (as stated by PE) Collodion seems to not have changed much from the time nitrocellulose was called pyroxaline.


Anyway, I'm open to feedback on other methodology to create POP, I own Christopher James's book and am familiar with other processes like Albumen. I'm interested in single bath style of sensitizers and preferably tap water washing. Thanks in advanced!
 

Peter Schrager

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I did the pop workshop with mark osterman
If you follow the rules you will make prints
Why experiment with other variables at first
Seems redundant to me.
Freestyle sells baryta paper although I have not used it and have heard questionable issues about it. Buy a box and find out
We also made prints on watercolor paper which were ok but nowhere as nice as the ones made on baryta paper
It's a great process little known and is very stable. I saw prints made by Atget that were like new.
Mark does gives the workshop once a year and I highly recommend it...its Always the nuances in doing these processes...and mark is the master at that.
Sorry I cant answer your other questions but I'm not a technical person just a doer
 

dwross

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Hi Keo,
Always great to see a photographer contemplating altprocess printing, no matter the medium! For what it's worth, you couldn't go more "minimalist" than gelatin POP, and the process is pretty, to boot. I once was a fairly good albumen printer. Gelatin POPs are very similar and a WHOLE lot easier. No need for baryta paper. One-tray processing, start to finish. Only a few chemicals for both emulsion and processing.

http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmleditiongen.py?chapter=POPBasics

Attached are two prints comparing and Gelatin Gaslight (developing-out) paper and Gelatin POP (right). Both were made from a Jason Lane dry plate.

I don't have an image of one of Mark's collodion POPs, but I've held a print, and it's lovely, too. Good luck and fun, whatever your process. d

Gaslight.jpg POP.jpg
 

dwross

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Keo, I failed to point out that active gelatin is not required (or even called for) in any of the current versions of traditional recipes. I've never used it. d
 
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Keo

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Messages
16
Location
Texas
Shooter
Medium Format
I did the pop workshop with mark osterman
If you follow the rules you will make prints
Why experiment with other variables at first
...
Freestyle sells baryta paper although I have not used it and have heard questionable issues about it. Buy a box and find out
We also made prints on watercolor paper which were ok but nowhere as nice as the ones made on baryta paper
...
Mark does gives the workshop once a year and I highly recommend it...its Always the nuances in doing these processes...and mark is the master at that.
Sorry I cant answer your other questions but I'm not a technical person just a doer

No need for apology, there are all sorts in the analog world. I've heard about Freestyle's Baryta paper and considered it as well. My problem is I'd like the option to expand to larger formats 20x24" and the like, which might be an option through custom orders I'm not sure. But that sounds like a more costly way to do things. I'll have to buy a sample pack and give it a try! The wonderful thing about the internet is that you can potentially live vicariously through others and their experience which is why I was wondering the substitution of salts used in the original formula. With that said my search on Archive and Google Books has led to an answer to my question. Other salts may be used, how they turn out is beyond me; but I'm certain it wouldn't truly have much of an impact in the final print.

Hi Keo,
Always great to see a photographer contemplating altprocess printing, no matter the medium! For what it's worth, you couldn't go more "minimalist" than gelatin POP, and the process is pretty, to boot. I once was a fairly good albumen printer. Gelatin POPs are very similar and a WHOLE lot easier. No need for baryta paper. One-tray processing, start to finish. Only a few chemicals for both emulsion and processing.

http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmleditiongen.py?chapter=POPBasics

Attached are two prints comparing and Gelatin Gaslight (developing-out) paper and Gelatin POP (right). Both were made from a Jason Lane dry plate.

I don't have an image of one of Mark's collodion POPs, but I've held a print, and it's lovely, too. Good luck and fun, whatever your process. d

View attachment 206577 View attachment 206578

Sup D? I frequent your website more than I'd like to admit because I am interested in silver gelatin emulsion making. Considered doing a video series in the distant future called Apocalypse Photography in which I put myself through an apocalyptic sort of scenario. Building a camera from salvaged scrap, making chemicals from raw compounds like silver nitrate, etc. Making alternative negatives and how to print them. This project will more than likely never be made, but it is fun to think about it! I'll have to reconsider making gelatin POP emulsions and thank you for the reference pictures. What is the shelf life of the emulsion, generally speaking? Ideally I'd like to precoat paper and store it for some time. Oh and I assumed it wasn't an active gelatin just based off the information on your website.


I have seen fixed out silver gelatin fiber papers used as the baryta base for alternative process. That might be an option you can consider if you can get hold of some cheaply.

This is a possibility that I've considered as well. Love going to fleebay and looking at the expired sheets of paper I can find on there. Sometimes, you get some real deals for carbon printing supports.
 
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