Coffee Based Developers, Why?

Gerald C Koch · Dec 2, 2010

I am curious as to why people bother with such developers. I was in contact with one gentleman who cannot obtain photographic chemicals easily where he lives. But for all others what is the incentive to use them? The active ingredient is caffeic acid which is a substituted catechol, 4-(2-carboxyvinyl) catechol to be specific. It seems that using one of the many catechol formulas present on the internet would produce the same results. Catechol is readily available and probably a lot cheaper to use. Caffeic acid is only present in very small amounts in instant coffee resulting in very long development times. Some shorten the development time with the addition of ascorbic acid but the question still remains. Is there any real advantage to cafffeic acid? I am sorry but as a chemist I can't see any. Seems like a waste of good java.

Athiril · Dec 2, 2010

On the caffenol blog or website there is a great image shot on Acros @ 1600 with a massive tonal range, I don't know if that can be done with just catechol or not, but there is some type of merit there.

It's not good java either.. usually they want the cheapest coffee available made with robusta beans, the caffeic acid content is said to be higher I think iirc, in any case it's bad coffee to begin with

Josh Harmon · Dec 2, 2010

I find it easier to run to the corner store to buy my Caffenol developer ingredients than traveling 10+ miles to my local pro store, or waiting days for online shipping. Plus as a student I find it exciting to be more in depth with the whole process, also it is quite cheap, but so is a gallon of d76.

dhosten · Dec 2, 2010

I was mediocre in high school chemistry, so depend on others to come up with the concoctions to try. I am about to use caffenol for the first time, but it is because I believe (rightly or wrongly) that it is more environmentally friendly than traditional developers and is 'safer'.... Also no matter if Kodak or Ilford remain in the business, coffee will be around forever.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 2, 2010

Athiril said:
On the caffenol blog or website there is a great image shot on Acros @ 1600 with a massive tonal range, I don't know if that can be done with just catechol or not, but there is some type of merit there.

There is a catechol formula on the unblinkingeye website which is capable of a 14 stop tonal range. Can caffenol do that?

Athiril · Dec 2, 2010

dhosten said:
I was mediocre in high school chemistry, so depend on others to come up with the concoctions to try. I am about to use caffenol for the first time, but it is because I believe (rightly or wrongly) that it is more environmentally friendly than traditional developers and is 'safer'.... Also no matter if Kodak or Ilford remain in the business, coffee will be around forever.

Then you should try plant/bark extract

Gerald C Koch · Dec 2, 2010

dhosten said:
I am about to use caffenol for the first time, but it is because I believe (rightly or wrongly) that it is more environmentally friendly than traditional developers and is 'safer'

Have you considered the destruction of the rain forest to plant coffee? A coffee tree is only productive for 7 years. The air pollution caused by shipping the beans by truck, the energy cost involved in brewing and dehydrating the coffee? It's not so simple.

removed account4 · Dec 2, 2010

hi gerald

to be honest, i just got bored, and a friend suggested
that i try it ... the smelly-brew seems to work well.
the ingredients are harmless enough that i don't mind having them
around the house, and easy to mix by eyeballing them.
unless i am captured by the some sort of task force that calls me names, and insists i
scale out all my ingredients ( for the greater good ), i don't see any reason to stop using it.
besides, most of the robusta coffee comes from the far east ( vietnam from what i understand )
and i don't mind helping out their growers as a lot of the beverage market goes towards
shade grown arabaca / boutique coffee.
if the task force comes to my door, i will go back to using ansco 130 as my primary developer.
i get great results from that too, and it doesn't smell bad.

ntenny · Dec 2, 2010

For me it's largely the hack value, the pleasure of being able to pull together a good developer out of materials available from the supermarket. The resulting developer also matches my taste: dead sharp, no solvent action at all, and for whatever reason---maybe the staining aspect---it produces an interesting "tonal palette", whatever that means, with some of the films I use regularly. And it can be dumped down the sink without the slightest concern.

The environmental and social impact of coffee is a pretty complex area. On the one hand, it's grown mainly in rather sensitive tropical areas that might be better left alone; on the other, people gotta do *something* to make a living, and there's an argument to be made that coffee plantations can be less destructive than, say, slash-and-burn. The instant stuff comes mainly from Vietnam, where the rainforests are, um, a little impacted already...then again, it comes from the commercial bottom of the barrel, the lowest-price stuff at the coffee auctions amalgamated together, where the producers probably have limited scope to concern themselves with good environmental or labour practices. But maybe it beats not having a job at all and poaching endangered species to feed your family. And so on.

It's certainly not a waste of *good* java. Have you ever tasted Folgers? Ick. As a coffee, it's a pretty good developer.

-NT

removed account4 · Dec 2, 2010

Gerald C Koch said:
Have you considered the destruction of the rain forest to plant coffee? A coffee tree is only productive for 7 years. The air pollution caused by shipping the beans by truck, the energy cost involved in brewing and dehydrating the coffee? It's not so simple.

you are right gerald
there is a lot of energy that goes into growing, picking, processing, shipping, roasting and grinding brewing, and then dehydrating (instant) coffee.
what sells for very little $ / lb on the commodities/futures market sells for a lot more after it is processed &C.
robusta coffee is not shade grown, and like all coffee it is not easy work.
all hand picked ( not monkey picked like some teas ). it might be dry processed ( the berry dried off of the bean by the sun ) which is also a lot of human-work
(raking ) or put through a miller to water-remove the berry, and semi-ferment the bean
before it is sorted and hauled away for further processing.

it is the middleman and the large coffee companies that make a lot of the money in
the coffee trade. the growers for a long time did not make much money, but in the last 10+ years
cooperatives of growers have banded together ( at least for the sale of arabaca beans )
and gotten a better deal for themselves, seeing the western world is
coffee-crazy. it isn't a low-impact resource as one would expect.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 2, 2010

ntenny said:
The resulting developer also matches my taste: dead sharp, no solvent action at all, and for whatever reason---maybe the staining aspect---it produces an interesting "tonal palette", whatever that means, with some of the films I use regularly. And it can be dumped down the sink without the slightest concern.
-NT

Exactly what can be said of using catechol. Remember you're essentailly using the same developing agent. The total cost of using a catechol based developer is less than 10 cents per roll of film. Catechol, alkali, and maybe a very small amount of sulfite.

A typical formula is

Stock Solution A

Potassium metabisulfite 12 g
Catechol 8 g
Water to make 100 ml

Stock solution B

Sodium hydroxide 35 g
Water to make 100 ml

For one 35 mm roll of film take 10 ml of A, 10 ml of B and 220 ml of water.

Steve Smith · Dec 2, 2010

Athiril said:
in any case it's bad coffee to begin with

All coffee is bad coffee in my opinion! It does do quite well as a developer though.

Steve.

ntenny · Dec 2, 2010

(wrt the virtues of coffee developers)

Gerald C Koch said:
Exactly what can be said of using catechol.

Sure. I'd probably like a similar catechol developer just as well, only I can't find the catechol aisle at the supermarket.

-NT

Removed Account2 · Dec 2, 2010

Gerald C Koch said:
Exactly what can be said of using catechol. Remember you're essentailly using the same developing agent. The total cost of using a catechol based developer is less than 10 cents per roll of film. Catechol, alkali, and maybe a very small amount of sulfite.

A typical formula is

Stock Solution A

Potassium metabisulfite 12 g
Catechol 8 g
Water to make 100 ml

Stock solution B

Sodium hydroxide 35 g
Water to make 100 ml

For one 35 mm roll of film take 10 ml of A, 10 ml of B and 220 ml of water.

Hi Jerry I cannot get photo chemicals any longer, even D76 is hard to get, and developing agents is out of the question, I have to import it from across the sea.

Where is catechol readily available? Can it be substituted with Tylenol?

Necator · Dec 2, 2010

Erik Prestmo said:
Hi Jerry I cannot get photo chemicals any longer, even D76 is hard to get, and developing agents is out of the question, I have to import it from across the sea.

Where is catechol readily available? Can it be substituted with Tylenol?

Erik, have you tried Fomafoto.no ? At least they are in your country

Steve Smith · Dec 2, 2010

ntenny said:
I can't find the catechol aisle at the supermarket.

You can make it yourself - actually, you have been doing it for years!

From an earlier APUG thread:

From The Film Developing Cookbook, by Stephen G. Anchell and Bill Troop, p. 25.

"One interesting attribute of pyrocatechin is that this toxic benzene chemical is a constituent of human urine. How or why the human body manufactures pyrocatechin is something we will leave to future generations of scientists — or theologians. Perhaps the Creator forsaw a time when developing agents would be in short supply but film would be plentiful?

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/172/8/1002

http://www.frugalphotographer.com/Publications/Non-toxic pinhole image develop.pdf

Steve.

Ole · Dec 2, 2010

I have enough catechol and metol to last a while - in fact I may never use it all up. And "pyro" too.

The longest range I've teased out of any film was when i used Windisch' extreme pyro developer, after the original recipe. It was enough to show detail in the shade as well as sunspots during a partial solar eclipse - on the same film frame!

None of the "standard" developer chemicals are readily available in Norway. But then again neither is good pure vitamin C, from what I've seen in the discussion threads.

olehjalmar · Dec 2, 2010

Ole said:
None of the "standard" developer chemicals are readily available in Norway. But then again neither is good pure vitamin C, from what I've seen in the discussion threads.

What's wrong with ascorbic acid from the pharmacy? It is supposed to be pure, and is not that expensive. Works for me, at least.

Matus Kalisky · Dec 2, 2010

A bit off topic, but there are places where you can buy pre-mix catechol based developers (like Pyrocat HD). I have ordered the premixed Pyrocat HD 3 years ago - and still use it! Two 0.5 liter bottles - working solution is obtained with 1:1:100 (A:B:water). I payed more for shipping+taxes than for the Pyrocat itself - but it still was a good choice. You can also get pre-weighted chemicals to make the shipping cheaper.

And if you want to get VERY large contrast on the film - then try two bath (A and B separately) developing in Pyrocat developer. I have not tried it yet, but have seen incredible results - google a bit to find more.

_________
The above does not mean that I have anything against developing film in turkish coffee, english breakfast tee or whatever vitamins of your choice

Steve Roberts · Dec 2, 2010

I shall be trying Caffenol for the first time in the next couple of weeks. For me it's purely curiosity, much the same as I'd try a different film, paper, camera or whatever. As for the OP's question "why not use catechol?", I can waltz into Sainsbury's and pick up a large jar of coffee for well under a quid but even if I wanted to use catechol (whatever it is) I wouldn't have a clue where to start looking.

I did have to buy the instant coffee specifically for the job. Like Steve Smith, I can't imagine why anyone would want to drink the stuff!

Steve

dhosten · Dec 2, 2010

- destruction of the rain forest -> why is the rain forest so special, after we have decimated the forests of Europe, North America, Asia, and Australasia to plant wheat and rice, and raise cattle and sheep? The argument that somehow the forests in South America deserve protection once we have squandered ours is rather nonsensical to me, and elitist, culturalist and racist to South Americans now trying to do what we did 3-4 centuries ago.

- when I say environmentally friendly, I meant my household/neighbourhood environment, not the global, although I do understand and generally support the think global, act local mantra.

- as photographer's, especially silver/analogue photographer's I think we are all aware that our love/passion/work is poisonous to the environment, but all continue to do it anyway. Minimizing our impact is something we probably all would like to see, as the process of mining silver is extremely toxic to the environments where it is actually mined.

- I am asthmatic and scent sensitive, so I keep trying to find ways to continue working in the darkroom, which won't send me into coughing spasms after an hour or two. Perhaps as a chemists/experts you can apply your intellects to that, since solving the problem of first world hypocrisy is probably beyond us.

- I have a 4 year old and a 7 year old, and am extremely nervous of subjecting them to developing process fumes, as I am unclear as to the effects on small children. Not having a background in chemistry, or medicine, I'm left with the choice of the layman, 'be as safe as possible, and consider alternatives where possible.'

- frankly I am unqualified to make the 'correct' decision based on chemical expertise, but do know that I still want to develop/print, so am looking around to expert forums to find better ways to do what I want and impact my family and my health at the same time. Any advice is appreciated, however once I can build (afford to build) an external door to my dark room, then I will be able to doodle around down there to my heart's content.

Alan Johnson · Dec 2, 2010

Gerald C Koch said:
Exactly what can be said of using catechol. Remember you're essentailly using the same developing agent. The total cost of using a catechol based developer is less than 10 cents per roll of film. Catechol, alkali, and maybe a very small amount of sulfite.

A typical formula is

Stock Solution A

Potassium metabisulfite 12 g
Catechol 8 g
Water to make 100 ml

Stock solution B

Sodium hydroxide 35 g
Water to make 100 ml

For one 35 mm roll of film take 10 ml of A, 10 ml of B and 220 ml of water.

There is a note on the safety of Catechol on p135 of the Film Developing Cookbook.
Regarding sodium hydroxide see this:
www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/sodium_hydroxide/

The newbie is safer messing with Caffenol I daresay.

cbretteville · Dec 2, 2010

Erik Prestmo said:
Hi Jerry I cannot get photo chemicals any longer, even D76 is hard to get, and developing agents is out of the question, I have to import it from across the sea.

Erik,
Fotoimport has been my supplier of film and chemicals for a few years now unless I need something really urgent. Then there is FotoPhono or Studio Technica. Dag is in Trondheim and is a great guy to deal with. http://www.fotoimport.no

Carl

removed account4 · Dec 2, 2010

Removed Account2 · Dec 2, 2010

olehjalmar said:
What's wrong with ascorbic acid from the pharmacy? It is supposed to be pure, and is not that expensive. Works for me, at least.

I have 3 sources from ICA in Sweden as E 300, used for making jam apparently, from a danish health food store chain, also as E 300, both are powders.

The 100 gram ascorbic acid from the pharmacy has been a disappointment, its not a powder, its more sugar-like, and it doesn't work as well as the E 300 types.

Thats why I'm looking for a substitute, going to Denmark or Sweden every time, from here on the north sea coast will be damn expensive and none of the photo suppliers have seen the light!+

Coffee Based Developers, Why?

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