coffee and soda crystals

[carmenloofah]

Has anyone tried to develop a film using coffee granules and soda crystals. I read about it and I would like to try it.

 

[Pentax_Junkie]

I think it works better as a paper developer, but you can use it to develop film. Was there something in particular you want to know?

 

[Murray@uptowngallery]

Google Caffenol, Caffenol+C and Caffenol LC+C
Original, faster with less staining and Low Contrast faster & less staining for document (microfilm) versions.

Donald Qualls' recipes may be posted here in the recipe area. Digital Truth may have them also.

There is also a guy in Costa Rica, Saul (costaricacoffeeart.com?) who has a different formulation and a coffee photo emulsion recipe. (You'll have to Google that).

Most people say it only works with instant, but I think brewed may have some purpose in a not-yet-optimized recipe.

Murray

 

[ntenny]

Most people say it only works with instant, but I think brewed may have some purpose in a not-yet-optimized recipe.

I've heard it suggested that the issue may be that instant coffees tend to be made of the cheaper "robusta" beans, which certainly have a higher caffeine content than the higher-quality "arabica" beans and might also have a higher caffeic acid content (which I believe is thought to be the main actual developing agent in coffee).

I have a bag of green robusta beans in the cabinet with my Caffenol stuff, as it happens; they make staggeringly horrible coffee for drinking purposes, but one of these days I mean to roast some and brew a test batch for developing. They were practically free, I think US$1 for half a pound of green beans---my bean supplier has a monthly special where they sell sample quantities of "bad example" coffees.

I'll post if I ever manage to do anything, but I've got a 1-month-old baby, so free time is in short supply lately.

-NT

 

[ntenny]

I think it works better as a paper developer

Do you use the same proportions as for film? I've never tried it with paper, but I'm curious.

Thanks.

-NT

 

[Mark Antony]

Yes I've tried it it works very well for me, he is my modus.
Developing in Coffee
Mark

 

[gainer]

It might br worthwhile to extract from ground coffee beans without heating. It runs in my mind that some manufacturers of instant coffee advertise that they do it that way. It's likely that the heat of brewing changes certain of the constituents.
I have heard that Folgers Instant works best. I bought some once with intent of trying film developing with it but wound up drinking it. I could tolerate it as "Hot Breakfast Drink" but not coffee as I know it.
OTH, it might be best to drink the coffe first and let your kidneys produce the p-aminophenol or whatever.

 

[jim appleyard]

The coffee method works for some, but not others. I would recommend a test roll before you try a serious one!

 

[ntenny]

It might br worthwhile to extract from ground coffee beans without heating.

Interesting thought. I've just googled a little bit, and it seems that the cold-brewed coffee is less acidic than the "regular" stuff (someone actually did a test and found a pH of 6.something, vs. about 5.5 for Starbucks brewed in-store), which makes me worry that it might have less of the caffeic acid specifically.

If caffeic acid even *is* the developing agent here. Do you have an opinion on that?

I have heard that Folgers Instant works best. I bought some once with intent of trying film developing with it but wound up drinking it.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Have you recovered from the trauma?

-NT

 

[Murray@uptowngallery]

Some say there are catechins and phenols in coffee that can work too. It also acts as a staining developer.
Some say it is even slower with paper than film.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I think instant works better just because you can make it more concentrated without doing something like brewing a gallon of coffee and boiling it down. When I tried it, I used an old dusty jar of some instant coffee or other (maybe Nescafe, if I recall) that was in the back of a drawer in our office. Since I generally made espresso in the office, I figured no one would miss it.

 

[Ray Heath]

g'day all

an interesting concept

are there any archival issues?

Ray

 

[Philippe-Georges]

The R.I.T. say's it works, see attachment.

Philippe

 

[gainer]

The mention of coffee and tea made me think. Just on a whim, I dumped a tablespoon of ground coffee and half a tablespoon of ascorbic acid in 100 ml of TEA and brewed it in the microwave. Added some to a little cold water (I should have filtered the grounds out) and it eventually blackened a film snip. I doubt it would be any more harmful to the body than coffee, tea and lemon, though that mixture might be rather harmful to the sensibilities. Lemon coffee might develop film with some added alkali.

Next, maybe I'll throw some Tylenol, C and TEA in a pot and see what happens.

 

[Trask]

Regarding robusta and Arabica et al, are we on the cusp of photo developer snobs demanding higher prices for prints from negatives developed in Jamaica Blue Mountain instead of Hill Brothers? Will we find developers made with Ethiopian coffee work best at high altitudes? And what about developer made from those beans that pass through the digestive tract of monkeys -- will they produce an extra-strong stain? The mind reels....

 

[jim appleyard]

g'day all

an interesting concept

are there any archival issues?

Ray

Probably not. I would guess that reduced silver is reduced silver and it doesn't care what reduces it. I would say that archival status comes from proper fixing and washing.

 

[Dave Wooten]

Starbucks gives away bags of grounds to gardeners, just ask for them.

 

[Toffle]

Some say there are catechins and phenols in coffee that can work too. It also acts as a staining developer.
Some say it is even slower with paper than film.

In my experience, using caffenol as a paper developer works almost identically to traditional/commercial developers. Exposure times are virtually the same, and developing times are comparable as well. I tend to mix my caffenol a little strong, so my bath times are typically under a minute. The results, of course can vary widely, from simple staining to surreal blotches and swirls.

Forgive me for referencing (again... it does seem like tiresome self-promotion :rolleyes: ) my article on the subject:
http://tomoverton.images.googlepages.com/caffenol

Even better, read about it in David Vickers' online mag:
Dead Link Removed
It's a good site and deserves more traffic.

Cheers,

 

[Akki14]

Starbucks gives away bags of grounds to gardeners, just ask for them.

That'd most likely have everything brewed out of them, though. What use would that be?

 

[jim appleyard]

That'd most likely have everything brewed out of them, though. What use would that be?

You'd get negs that are much calmer, less stressed out and don't have to pee every 20 minutes! (sorry couldn't help it)

 

[ntenny]

The mention of coffee and tea made me think. Just on a whim, I dumped a tablespoon of ground coffee and half a tablespoon of ascorbic acid in 100 ml of TEA and brewed it in the microwave. Added some to a little cold water (I should have filtered the grounds out) and it eventually blackened a film snip.

This is interesting. Do you suppose there's any chance the TEA would improve the keeping qualities of the developing agents in the coffee, as it does for phenidone IIRC?

PC-TEA is on my Things To Do In Copious Free Time list, so when I have the TEA on hand maybe I'll experiment with this combination too. I'd suggest calling it CTC (for Coffee/TEA/vitamin C, of course, but it also happens to be the name of a commercial processing method for tea (not TEA)).

-NT

 

[removed account4]

most world's supply of robusto coffee comes from vietnam these days.
when i buy instant ( only for my developer ) i look for the cheepest stuff
on the shelf! it works great

 

[Aurum]

This is interesting. Do you suppose there's any chance the TEA would improve the keeping qualities of the developing agents in the coffee, as it does for phenidone IIRC?

PC-TEA is on my Things To Do In Copious Free Time list, so when I have the TEA on hand maybe I'll experiment with this combination too. I'd suggest calling it CTC (for Coffee/TEA/vitamin C, of course, but it also happens to be the name of a commercial processing method for tea (not TEA)).

-NT

By TEA I'm assuming you mean Triethanolamine rather than the extract of Camellia Sinensis favoured by the English.

Though Come to think of it if I save up a pile of old teabags it might just work....... :rolleyes:
Could our South African chums substitute Rooibos (Redbush) tea instead.

I feel a bit of experimentation coming on

 

[gainer]

Most things that will dissolve in either Propylene glycol or TEA will be better preserved from oxidation than in water because they don't ionize as they do in water. For that reason, TEA or glycol should only be used as a solvent for stock solutions that will be diluted with water for use. If the developer doesn't oxidize itelf in the presence of silvr halides, it won't reduce the halides to metallic silver. It may be that you will have to use the coffee extract as you would p-aminophenol, along with ascorbate or catechol or hydroquinone to get enough concentration in the stock. I'm not much inclined to try to perfect anything like it. A developer like Pyrocat PC or a simple P-C Carbonate, with the P being p-aminophenol from Tylenol, would be my idea of a better way to get a high quality developer I could still get if all the photo chemical suppliers were forced out of business, which, if it comes to pass, will more likely be caused by do-gooder laws forbidding sales to ordinary people than by lack of demand. Its also nice to know you can develop a roll with stuff you can get almost anywhere even after most people have gone to bed.

If I do come up with something good in one of my whimsical moments, I will certainly spread the word. Don't let my preferences govern yours. The argument from authority is the weakest form of philosophical argument. Pretend you're from Missouri even if you're not.

 

[ntenny]

Most things that will dissolve in either Propylene glycol or TEA will be better preserved from oxidation than in water because they don't ionize as they do in water. For that reason, TEA or glycol should only be used as a solvent for stock solutions that will be diluted with water for use. If the developer doesn't oxidize itelf in the presence of silvr halides, it won't reduce the halides to metallic silver.

I'm glad I asked, because to my astonishment I actually understood the answer!

I'm not much inclined to try to perfect anything like it. A developer like Pyrocat PC or a simple P-C Carbonate, with the P being p-aminophenol from Tylenol, would be my idea of a better way <...>

Living as I do on a septic system (and with a baby in the house), I'm attracted to the negligible toxicity of coffee developers. The p-aminophenol developers are probably septic-safe but not baby-safe, and I assume anything with "pyro" in the name is a deathtrap, right?

Don't let my preferences govern yours. The argument from authority is the weakest form of philosophical argument. Pretend you're from Missouri even if you're not.

As it happens, much of my family *is* from Missouri. Don't worry, I'm not looking for an argument from authority, but where other people know more than I do, I try to avoid reinventing the wheel. I have the chemistry competence of a developmentally disabled wombat, so I depend a lot on other people's brains in this area.

-NT