Cloth or metal shutter curtain on ARAX (Kiev 88 CM) camera?

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nsurit

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I am planning to buy am ARAX camera to use with the Kickstarter Petsvar lens bought from Denys. Lens isn't here yet, however it looks like that may happen in the near future. Any opinions on benefits of either the cloth or metal shutter curtain options? Bill Barber
 

summicron1

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the cloth curtains replaced the metal ones for the very good reason that the metal ones didn't work all that well.

Having said that, I'd avoid any and all Kiev 88 cameras unless you are fond of paper weights. There's a reason Hasselblad abandoned that design. I just read the ARAX site about all the upgrades they do on those things, and yet they still sell them for such low prices?

Anything that needs that much work just to be reliable has a bad start. Anything that sells for that much after that much work is still, at its core, a cheap camera.
 
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nsurit

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I have a Hasselblad kit, however the lens mount is for the Pentacon 6 which doesn't fit the Hasselblad. BB
 

summicron1

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I have a Hasselblad kit, however the lens mount is for the Pentacon 6 which doesn't fit the Hasselblad. BB

well, that's a problem. Just keep ur expectations real and handle the kiev carefully. Or perhaps buy a Pentacon 6?

i admit i'm prejudiced, i had a horrible experience with a kiev, and if you wander around the web you'll see plenty of folks who say they're good "but..." and then go on for quite a while.
 

BobMarvin

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I've never had a Kiev, or Arax, 88, but I have both an Arax 60 and a Pentacon Six TL; IMO the Arax is FAR more reliable
 
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itsdoable

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I have a Kiev88 and a Hartblei (like and Arax - a modified Kiev). Both are reliable. If you get a Kiev that is working, it is probably fine since it was one that worked. Hartblei (or Arax) just takes the factory bodies, and makes sure they work properly before they deliver it (and adds modifications, like the cloth shutter).

Metal or clothe shutter: the reason Victor Hasselbald (and thus Kiev) used metal shutters was to prevent holes from being burnt in them by the sun, which happened to his Leicas. Because the blads did not have an instant return mirror, the shutter is exposed after the exposure, and if the sun in focused on it for any lenght of time, you can easily get a hole in a cloth shutter (think tripod mounted with the sun in the picture). Not so with a metal shutter. The 200 series Hasselblads came with an instant return mirror, which blocked the shutter after exposure, so they could switch to a cloth shutter with less chance of sun damage.

The disadvantage of the metal shutter is that it is easier to damage it if you stick your finger through it. (This is true with 35mm SLR's too). The fact that it had a removable back made this an issue.

The cloth shutter is quieter (or has a softer sound). Leica users do not have a huge issue with sun damage, but if you ask any leica repair house, it certainly happens. But Leicas probably spend less time on tripods than Hasselblad/Kievs. If you are careful not to leave the camera with the sun in the frame after an exposure, and/or you have fuble fingers and like to chang the back a lot, a cloth shutter is probably a good idea. Personally I'm fine with either, but if I was buying one today, my personal preference would be the cloth shutter.
 

iulian

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I had a Kiev 88CM from ebay (described as refurbished by Hartblei... yeah, right). It worked fine for about 20 rolls and then it started doing some banding at the short speeds due to one of the shutter curtains being slow. After another 10 rolls the shutte rwould fire at the fastest speed all the time. It's still at the repair guy and I got tired of calling him to get it so...
I bought an Arax 88CM body with MLU. This one worked fine again for somewhere around 100 rolls and this summer it started banding again.
Both had/have cloth curtains and are of fairly recent production.
My advice - get something else. Even a Pentacon Six would be better.
 

Uncle Goose

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I've been using the Arax Kiev 60 for a few years now and I have nothing but praise for the upgrades and work they have put in these machines. Works like a charm and takes great pictures. But I do believe the Kiev 60 is somewhat more reliable than the 88.
 
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