Closest thing to Ektar 100 in a 400 speed 120 film?

TheFlyingCamera · Jun 23, 2015

Anyone have recommendations for the closest thing to Ektar 100 in a 400 speed film in 120 size? I love Ektar's palette and contrast. I wish Kodak made a 400 speed Ektar, but they don't. Portra 400 is a great film, but it's not Ektar. If it's the closest thing, I'm fine with that, but if there's an offering from Fuji that will look more like Ektar than Portra, I'm open to that idea as well.

DREW WILEY · Jun 23, 2015

There's nothing out there in color neg with as clean or overall saturated, or with that kind of contrast. Other films have been marketed which saturate certain stereotypical hues while attempting to keep the alleged neutrality of skintones, but not in any reasonably balanced fashion like Ektar. They're all basically portrait films which have been tweaked one way or another, and will still render contaminated warm hues, what I term "mud". Portra 400 is an excellent product in itsown right, with remarkable fine grain for its speed, but will share some of those characteristics generic to traditional color negs. So that is about the best you are going to do. Fuji does have some interesting films, but not with respect to what you are hoping for.

heterolysis · Jun 23, 2015

The only fresh colour 120 films I know of that are 400 speed are Portra, Fuji 400H, and the one by Lomography. I think the latter two are more like Ektar than Portra would be, but I wouldn't say any are particularly close. The Lomo film also suffers from the fact the frame numbers will be faintly visible in all of your shots. 400H is a very nice film, but maybe not with the look you're looking for.

Try pushing Ektar to 400. People seem to have had some success with it, and it might be more in line with the tones you want.

pentaxuser · Jun 23, 2015

heterolysis said:
The only fresh colour 120 films I know of that are 400 speed are Portra, Fuji 400H, and the one by Lomography.

I wasn't aware that Lomography produced films in its own right. If it doesn't then who does and to what specification?

Thanks

pentaxuser

MattKing · Jun 23, 2015

If you can find some close dated Portra 400 VC it might fulfil your needs.

benjiboy · Jun 23, 2015

Fuji 400H Professional is about the only game in town that hasn't been discontinued.

Sirius Glass · Jun 23, 2015

Go see if you can find Kodak Ultra Color 400 if you want more saturation with good skin tones.

DREW WILEY · Jun 23, 2015

Porta VC was headed the right direction, but not really quite there. Might as well be using Ektar 400. Nearly the same animal, but improved. I cannot recommend pushing Ektar. If you understand how the color reproduction is made to work, you'll understand why. The exact characteristics you want it for will be pushed down those dye curves through underexposure and turned into mud again, where the dye curves
start to overlap rather than are cleanly separated. Underexposure in bad for color negs in general. And in the case of Ektar, you have a lot
less wiggle-room or latitude in general. It's a film for adults who know how to use light meters.

Pioneer · Jun 23, 2015

I have had luck photographing fireworks with Ektar but I am holding the shutter open for awhile so I really couldn't say what the exposure index really is.
Normally, my experience is that Ektar loves lots of light. I have never tried it but it seems under exposing would definitely be going the wrong way.

Mark Antony · Jun 23, 2015

I'd push it personally. Even with standard exposure in borderline conditions (especially in sun) Ektar can take some underexposure, under exposed makes slightly grainy and higher in contrast.

When the film first came out I made a series of tests and was really impressed by the latitude for a higher contrast emulsion.

Try a two stop push, with careful exposure you will be amazed.

cl3mens · Jun 23, 2015

Have you looked into Rollei CN 200? Might be pushable to 400. Some people claim that is is based on a Agfa 400 speed film...

DREW WILEY · Jun 23, 2015

My gosh ... he's posted shots before. Doesn't strike me as someone who wants his shots looking like a cinema poster for Frankenstein Meets
Sodium Vapor Streetlights!

Paul Verizzo · Jun 23, 2015

MattKing said:
If you can find some close dated Portra 400 VC it might fulfil your needs.

I can't speak to that infamous matter of "look", one Portra 400 to the other, but the latest, non-VC version is far more technically advance. Finer grain, better dye coupler technology, etc. IIRC, it even uses some of the cine Vision3 methods.

pentaxuser · Jun 23, 2015

Looks pretty good to me Mark for a two stop push

pentaxuser

TheFlyingCamera · Jun 23, 2015

cl3mens said:
Have you looked into Rollei CN 200? Might be pushable to 400. Some people claim that is is based on a Agfa 400 speed film...

I don't know that I've seen any work made with it. It's also as expensive as Portra 800. Which I'd rather buy if I'm going to be spending that kind of money per roll.

Paul Verizzo · Jun 23, 2015

pentaxuser said:
Looks pretty good to me Mark for a two stop push

pentaxuser

Interesting. But what do you lose? We all know the advice of using a film native at the higher speed than a slower one pushed. You'll probably lose any grain advantage compared to Portra 400, and while the superior resolution of the Ektar probably isn't effected, matters of lighting and contrast will probably overwhelm any advantage there.

Portra 400 is indeed, a very advanced film: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/films/portra/400FB.jhtml?pq-path=2300876 We are fortunate to have it around.

(While poking around over there on the Kodak site, I found that they only make two films now for consumers, a 200 speed Gold and 400 speed Max. Jeez, they can't even use the same name! And those of us in the know, if I may, know that they suck compared to any Fuji consumer films. If Biz Schools aren't using the almost death of the Great Yellow Father for studies, they should. You don't need an MBA to see how they messed up.)

Mark Antony · Jun 24, 2015

pentaxuser said:
Looks pretty good to me Mark for a two stop push

pentaxuser

Actually that was no push just relying on the latitude of the film. Pushing it just mildly say another 30 seconds in the developer would probably result in better results. also if you want more 'pop' and contrast pushing a film such as Portra 160 a stop could give a nice result.
In these days of fewer choices a little out of the box creativity might be needed!

TenSpeed · Jun 24, 2015

I enjoy agfa 400

cl3mens · Jun 24, 2015

TheFlyingCamera said:
I don't know that I've seen any work made with it. It's also as expensive as Portra 800. Which I'd rather buy if I'm going to be spending that kind of money per roll.

No, not much to find on the web. It is cheaper than P800 for me since I live in Europe, but I get your point. But consensus seems to be that it has a diffrent palette from Portra, some people say it has strong reds. Grain will be miles from Ektar though...

I am kind of interested to try it in 120 but I've got too much film on my hands as it is...

edit: Based on this (http://stefanworks.com/film/digibasecn200.html) I think it looks a bit like Kodak Colorplus. Kind of brown tones. I have trouble trusting scanned color negatives, everybody makes their own version...

trythis · Jun 24, 2015

I accidentally ran a roll of 120 at 400 and had it lab developed normally and saw no problems. I was worried but would shoot it at 400 again

Typos made on a tiny phone...

pentaxuser · Jun 24, 2015

What I should have said Mark is that it was pretty good for the 2 stop underexposure alteration you had to make from the box speed. In fact of the four scans I thought the 2 stop alteration gave the most "pop"

I couldn't see any signs of colour crossover or anything else that indicates that a 2 stop underexposure results in a very poor negative

pentaxuser

Mark Antony · Jun 24, 2015

pentaxuser said:
What I should have said Mark is that it was pretty good for the 2 stop underexposure alteration you had to make from the box speed. In fact of the four scans I thought the 2 stop alteration gave the most "pop"

I couldn't see any signs of colour crossover or anything else that indicates that a 2 stop underexposure results in a very poor negative

pentaxuser

My own thoughts on Ektar is that overexposure flattens it or lowers contrast slightly, I have found underexposure gives pop and adds contrast without too much overall cast creeping in-a little shadow loss possibly.
Some people say under exposure is no good and Ektar doesn't have much latitude but I've found the opposite, metering for the shadow and stopping down two stops gives me great tonality and plenty of shadow detail.
Of course light conditions play a bigger part, in bright conditions it can sing and almost give tranny like results:

It's the way it emphasises reds though that I like, similar to KR64 in the way it makes red stand out.

The above is on a Bessa folder from the 1950's

Paul Verizzo · Jun 24, 2015

@Mark: Very, very impressive! That was with standard processing, no push? How is it the edge marking shows up in the first shot, like it was Ektachrome or made into a slide? Scanner?

If Ektar is this versatile, I might have to rethink my color film decisions!

DREW WILEY · Jun 24, 2015

It doesn't emphasize red. You're simply getting the color wheel out of balance by underexposing it and messing with blue reproduction in the shadows, shifting this toward magenta. That's perfectly fine from a creative standpoint if it is what you want and like, but you're explaining it on the wrong basis. Ektar is fairly remarkable as a color neg film because you can generally keep the neutrals in balance at the same time, much like Kodachrome of old, but not if the respective dyes are exposed askew, out of relation to one another. Because this film has higher contrast, the geometry of the sensitivity of the respective curves has to be kept parallel if you want an objective result. Also color temp correction as needed, through appropriate filters. What gives a better indication of whether or not you've mastered Ektar is when you can make a wide spectrum of hues sing in overcast light and at least pretend to be a chrome. Have fun, regardless!

Paul Verizzo · Jun 24, 2015

DREW WILEY said:
It doesn't emphasize red. You're simply getting the color wheel out of balance by underexposing it and messing with blue reproduction in the shadows, shifting this toward magenta. That's perfectly fine from a creative standpoint if it is what you want and like, but you're explaining it on the wrong basis. Ektar is fairly remarkable as a color neg film because you can generally keep the neutrals in balance at the same time, much like Kodachrome of old, but not if the respective dyes are exposed askew, out of relation to one another. Because this film has higher contrast, the geometry of the sensitivity of the respective curves has to be kept parallel if you want an objective result. Also color temp correction as needed, through appropriate filters. What gives a better indication of whether or not you've mastered Ektar is when you can make a wide spectrum of hues sing in overcast light and at least pretend to be a chrome. Have fun, regardless!

Brief edition: There's something wrong with his images?

Closest thing to Ektar 100 in a 400 speed 120 film?

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