Close focusing TLR's

StoneNYC · Mar 30, 2017

i know there have been plenty of threads on TLR's and I'm probably bad with google search but...

I'm specifically wondering which 6x6 (120) TLR models (any brand) are good for close focusing.

I've only owned two TLR's in my life, they were the Yashica 44 and then the upgraded Yashica 44LM, both took 127 film.

I've realized some of my favored work was done with them but the close focusing portrait was untouchable.

On top of this, they need to have a PC flash plug and be halfway decent in sharpness.

I love Yashica because I'm comfortable with it, but I know there are Rollie and Mamiya, although the really long bellows Mamiya is kind of ugly..

Anyway, what are my options?

Thanks!

MattKing · Mar 31, 2017

By close focus, do you mean close portraits, or macro/near macro?
My Mamiya C330 works really well for close portraits, and I've got down to half life size with macro work.
You need to know how to deal with parallax error, and exposure compensation too.
I've used the 135mm lens for portraits on many occasions.
The lenses are sharp!
Here is a (self) portrait using the 65mm lens:

Jeff L · Mar 31, 2017

If you love Yashica, then I'd suggest a Yashica 6x6 at with a Rollinar 1,2 or 3 close up lens

Ian Grant · Mar 31, 2017

For close up work the best TLRs are the Mamiyas C33. and the various C330 models as they have built in compensation for Parallax, and decent bellows extension so no supplementary attachments are needed. I used mine to shoot a jewellery catalogue back in the 1970s.

Ian

bdial · Mar 31, 2017

If you want to work close, my recommendation is similar to the others, a Mamiya C330 or one of its predecessors/cousins.

Yes, they are big, but incredibly versatile because of the ability to change lenses, and the seamless close focusing because of the bellows.
If you are working from a tripod and very close, the "paramender " accessory helps to position the taking lens to the viewing lens position. But it's not essential. I did fine with mine for closeup work without one (and repositioning manually).

Rolleis or Yashicas will work too, but they only focus down to 2.5 - 3 feet or so, and if you need to work closer then you'll need to add a close-up lens, then with it on, you can't back off without removing it again. In the meantime you'll be going back and forth the full range of the focusing. It all works, but it can be fiddly, frustrating, and might be an interruption to your mental flow.

If your goal is working in that range of a few inches out to 3 or 4 feet (or beyond) with a TLR, the Mamiya is the best possible choice, IMO.
The optics are excellent too, so there is no compromise there either.

Alan Gales · Mar 31, 2017

I agree with the Mamiya C330 recommendations with it's bellows focussing. I own a C220f but the C330 series is better for hand held parallax correction. Do as bdial suggests and buy the paramender. They are cheap and easy to find on Ebay.

ransel · Mar 31, 2017

Yes, the Mamiya "C" models, any of them pretty much. I have had a C3, C33, and now have a C220 - I love what I get out of the 80mm lens on any of these cameras.

I can focus down to about 8" from the subject.

adelorenzo · Mar 31, 2017

Another vote for the C330 it has lots of focusing extension. I shoot with the 80mm but if I was doing a lot of portraits I'd think about a longer lens.

As mentioned the parallax indicator is quite handy. For example with Dead Link Removed I was probably only using half of the viewfinder.

Ko.Fe. · Mar 31, 2017

With Mamiya TLR closer you'll get more parallax you will have to deal in VF. Something like half of the screen with short lens. For close portraits I recommend 6x6 SLR instead of TLR. Or long tele for Mamiya TLR.
With 134 4.5 lens on C33.

This one was with 80 2.8 lens and to get this close I have to be very close to the face and parallax was very hard to control, which is visible in the picture. Parallax and exposure compensation due to bellows.

I get rid of this rig shortly after it.

flavio81 · Mar 31, 2017

Mamiya "C" series TLR with the "paramender" accesory. Makes macro easier.

Nick Merritt · Mar 31, 2017

Definitely the Mamiyas are great, but parallax can get a little tricky. You didn't say how close you want to get, but any 6x6 TLR with the bayonet mount for filters will take a Rolleinar (or other similar closeup attachment -- Minolta made them, and I think Yashica did as well). The most common Rolleinar size is "Bay" (for bayonet) I, which is the size that fits the Yashicas and Minoltas, and other Japanese TLRs. The Rolleinar 3 is the closest focus; I think it's basically 18" to 12." For portraits, the Rolleinar 1 is great, since it brings the camera's minimum focus from 1 meter down to 1/2 meter -- very helpful for tight shots.

The Rolleinars are in two parts -- one lens fits onto the taking lens, and the other, which is larger since it has the parallax glass, fits onto the viewing lens. No additional parallax compensation needed on your part, and no exposure adjustment either (which is needed for the Mamiyas).

grahamp · Mar 31, 2017

The TLR close-up adapters do not quite correct for parallax. The compensation uses a prism to direct the view finder field downwards so that it intersects with the area seen by the taking lens. It is good enough for most uses (I keep a set on the strap of my YashicaMat), but the only way to really correct for parallax is to put the taking lens into the same position as the viewing lens for the exposure.

The Mamiya C lens offset is 50mm between the axes. On most Bay1 TLRs the separation is less (I hesitate to say all, but so many are close cousins to the Rollei design). You sometimes see Mamiya Paramenders with marks to set the correct offset for the smaller fixed lens cameras.

If an SLR is not an option, then the Mamiya C series gives the most flexibility for close distance work.

StoneNYC · Apr 1, 2017

Ian Grant said:
For close up work the best TLRs are the Mamiyas C33. and the various C330 models as they have built in compensation for Parallax, and decent bellows extension so no supplementary attachments are needed. I used mine to shoot a jewellery catalogue back in the 1970s.

Ian

Thanks Ian!

ransel said:
Yes, the Mamiya "C" models, any of them pretty much. I have had a C3, C33, and now have a C220 - I love what I get out of the 80mm lens on any of these cameras.
View attachment 176282 View attachment 176283 View attachment 176284

I can focus down to about 8" from the subject.

Examples are helpful, thanks!

Ko.Fe. said:
With Mamiya TLR closer you'll get more parallax you will have to deal in VF. Something like half of the screen with short lens. For close portraits I recommend 6x6 SLR instead of TLR. Or long tele for Mamiya TLR.
With 134 4.5 lens on C33.

This one was with 80 2.8 lens and to get this close I have to be very close to the face and parallax was very hard to control, which is visible in the picture. Parallax and exposure compensation due to bellows.

I get rid of this rig shortly after it.

That second one is (sort of) what I'm going for, thanks that's very helpful!

Nick Merritt said:
Definitely the Mamiyas are great, but parallax can get a little tricky. You didn't say how close you want to get, but any 6x6 TLR with the bayonet mount for filters will take a Rolleinar (or other similar closeup attachment -- Minolta made them, and I think Yashica did as well). The most common Rolleinar size is "Bay" (for bayonet) I, which is the size that fits the Yashicas and Minoltas, and other Japanese TLRs. The Rolleinar 3 is the closest focus; I think it's basically 18" to 12." For portraits, the Rolleinar 1 is great, since it brings the camera's minimum focus from 1 meter down to 1/2 meter -- very helpful for tight shots.

The Rolleinars are in two parts -- one lens fits onto the taking lens, and the other, which is larger since it has the parallax glass, fits onto the viewing lens. No additional parallax compensation needed on your part, and no exposure adjustment either (which is needed for the Mamiyas).

Thanks, I got a little confused at first when you switched from inches to meters haha! But I've got it now. I'll have to look at the Rolleinar 3 as a second option to the C330.

Thanks everyone!

Alan Gales · Apr 1, 2017

grahamp said:
You sometimes see Mamiya Paramenders with marks to set the correct offset for the smaller fixed lens cameras.

Minolta made one for their Autocords. It's called a Paradjuster. I would think it would work fine for a Rollei or Yachica TLR.

Minolta Paradjuster

Ian Grant · Apr 1, 2017

Stone, I had a pair of Mamiya C cameras a C3 and a C33, for close up work I had the tripod and particularly the column angled so I could raise it between focussing and shooting quite close up so the movement was similar to a Paramender. I found them remarkably easy to use for close up work. The only reason I stopped using them was they were stolen, by then I was shooting LF so replaced them with Mamiya 645s.

I really enjoyed using my Mamiya TLR cameras, I loved the 55mm and 80mm for portraits, shot a lot of rock bands with them. I would buy another C33/C330 kit but it's a bit heavy to use alongside my LF kit

Ian

jgoody · Apr 1, 2017

I've had good luck with the Rolleinar close up lenses (one for the viewing lens, another for the taking lens) and an Autocord. The prism in the Rolleinar viewing lenses seems to give reasonably accurate framing. They come in various powers and sizes to fit different cameras. The Autocord takes Bay 1 accessories.

tessar · Apr 1, 2017

For close-ups I've used Mamiya C330 TLRs with a Paramender for years. Works perfectly; for close-ups you need a tripod anyway. When using one of these cameras handheld I've found the parallax indicator satisfactory.

BobMarvin11225 · Apr 2, 2017

I have no doubt that the various Mamiya TLR models, with their long bellows, are the best TLRs for close-ups but, in my experience, the Rollei Rolleinars work remarkably well. I have Bay III #s 1, 2, 1n 3 and have used all successfully (mostly the #1). As an aside, you can't use the full set of Rolleinars (with the prism) together with a Paradjuster or similar mechanical parallax compensating gadget.

narsuitus · Apr 2, 2017

I used a Mamiya TLR (C2, C22, C220) for tight portraits and product close-ups. I used a do-it-yourself paramender.

StoneNYC · Apr 2, 2017

tessar said:
For close-ups I've used Mamiya C330 TLRs with a Paramender for years. Works perfectly; for close-ups you need a tripod anyway. When using one of these cameras handheld I've found the parallax indicator satisfactory.

Why do you need a tripod for closeups? Not sure I'm following your logic.

MattKing · Apr 2, 2017

StoneNYC said:
Why do you need a tripod for closeups? Not sure I'm following your logic.

Most likely it is a reference to the macro or near macro types of closeups.
For something like a close cropped head and shoulders portrait, I too prefer using a tripod (because I can maintain eye contact with the subject) but handheld work is doable - you just need to get good at recognizing how to adjust for the 50mm in parallax.

jgoody · Apr 2, 2017

That's what's so clever about the Rolleinars - each set has a limited range of focus but the parallex issue is dealt with.

Sirius Glass · Apr 2, 2017

Those who are familiar with my views know that I am not a fan of the Mamiya CXXX family, however the best TLR close focusing camera is the Mamiya CXXX family especially when used with the Paraminder parallel corrector. There is no finer TLR than the Mamiya flex camera bar none. Look no further.

StoneNYC · Apr 3, 2017

MattKing said:
Most likely it is a reference to the macro or near macro types of closeups.
For something like a close cropped head and shoulders portrait, I too prefer using a tripod (because I can maintain eye contact with the subject) but handheld work is doable - you just need to get good at recognizing how to adjust for the 50mm in parallax.

Gotcha, yea this is all handheld and also hence the need for a PC socket.

Thanks!

MattKing · Apr 3, 2017

If you are going to use a Mamiya TLR, you get the benefit of leaf shutters and flash synch at all available speeds.
But whatever you do, be sure to check that the synch selector hasn't migrated from the X position to the M position!
There is a reason that a lot of the used lenses out there have been modified to permanently set the selector to X.

Close focusing TLR's

StoneNYC

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tessar

BobMarvin11225

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StoneNYC

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Close focusing TLR's

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