How about suggesting a "compromise" keep the image as is and let them have a cover mat made or you provide one that shows as much of the image as they want which is what they could also do once they purchased it and took it to a framer. in which case you wouldn't know anyways.
Client wants image cropped.
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I would not accept such a suggestion if the cropped version doesn't fit to my (not necessarily initial) vision. It's almost an insult... (Actually it is!)
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
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- 710
If it's your artwork, I would only offer the image the way you think it is best, and yours. You have made a print cropped the way you like, and the potential client suggests a crop. I think it is worth keeping an open mind and considering the proposed cropped imagedoes it improve your image according to your vision, a skillful editor's suggestion that helps you better see what you wanted to do, or did you get it right the first time? At this point, stick with what best represents your vision.
But I am guessing you got it right the first time, and that this exercise will help your vision in the future.
But I am guessing you got it right the first time, and that this exercise will help your vision in the future.
- Joined
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- 35mm
As i don't do commerical work i won't even suggest what to do as it has already been covered by many others.
If someone asked me to crop my image a specific way i would tell them no thanks, i would rather not sell it to someone who doesn't appreciate the print as is. In fact, if i don't care for the buyer the price goes up, and up and up; on the other hand i have been known to give away something just because if felt like the right thing to do.
I had a friend years ago who asked me to make a print a specific size and i told her no, I couldn't do that. Sometime later, i discovered that she thought i didn't know how or have the equipment to do so, not that the print was the size i wanted it to be.
just my 2 cents
If someone asked me to crop my image a specific way i would tell them no thanks, i would rather not sell it to someone who doesn't appreciate the print as is. In fact, if i don't care for the buyer the price goes up, and up and up; on the other hand i have been known to give away something just because if felt like the right thing to do.
I had a friend years ago who asked me to make a print a specific size and i told her no, I couldn't do that. Sometime later, i discovered that she thought i didn't know how or have the equipment to do so, not that the print was the size i wanted it to be.
just my 2 cents
You probably still have the copyright but once they buy it, it's theirs to display it or for that matter trash it. The idea is to have a pleased patron who may purchase more of you prints or send you referrals. I still think that if they like your work enough to buy it, you could make the suggestion I posted above. Tell them to live with it for a while before having it matted and framed as they may end up seeing it as you did.
Is what the person is paying worth cropping the print? If so, take it, and do it. If not, then don't. Simple. Hell. I'd see it as an opportunity, and charge them extra for making a custom print. Personally, they could use my prints as toilet paper and I wouldn't care one bit, as long as they had paid for them first. Pride in ones work comes from within, not from sales. Sales are just a cold, hard, cutthroat way to pay the bills, IMO. Customers are money, not ego strokers.
Money talks once you decide to sell your work, IMO. If you are selling your photography to people to display in their homes, please don't try to pretend that there is some sort of "artist's" integrity or what have you. You have decided to sell prints to people, and they can do whatever they please with them once they own them. If you can't abide by that, then don't ever sell prints. Books would be a better idea if you feel that way, IMO.
In short, I have no "artistic integrity" that cannot be bought. If I decide to actively sell something I have made, I have already decided that the "art" of it is out of my hands, and all I want is the money. If you are going to sell at all, then SELL OUT ALL THE WAY! That's the way I feel about it.........YMMV, as they say.
P.S. "The customer is always right" is a crazy philosophy to me. The real expression goes: "The customer is usually wrong, often stupid, and sometimes crazy, and it is up to me to decide whether putting up with them is worth the money they are paying me." If I ever have a storefront of any kind, a sign with that on it will be on prominent display.
Money talks once you decide to sell your work, IMO. If you are selling your photography to people to display in their homes, please don't try to pretend that there is some sort of "artist's" integrity or what have you. You have decided to sell prints to people, and they can do whatever they please with them once they own them. If you can't abide by that, then don't ever sell prints. Books would be a better idea if you feel that way, IMO.
In short, I have no "artistic integrity" that cannot be bought. If I decide to actively sell something I have made, I have already decided that the "art" of it is out of my hands, and all I want is the money. If you are going to sell at all, then SELL OUT ALL THE WAY! That's the way I feel about it.........YMMV, as they say.
P.S. "The customer is always right" is a crazy philosophy to me. The real expression goes: "The customer is usually wrong, often stupid, and sometimes crazy, and it is up to me to decide whether putting up with them is worth the money they are paying me." If I ever have a storefront of any kind, a sign with that on it will be on prominent display.
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The moment you decide you want to sell things to specific customers, the 'philosophy' perhaps best assumed would be that you apply your art to meet the customer.
It's like talking. We all mastered that 'art', but there is very little satisfaction (to most anyway) in getting together with a bunch of people evenings, just to assert to that gropu that you can indeed talk.
You apply your acquired skill to engage in a conversation, a meeting of people and their opinions, to the benefit of all (including yourself).
It's quite possible to consider 'Art' a noun that should only be written capitalized, and think that the best way to deal with it is to assert how well you have mastered it. Personally, i find it gets tired very, very soon to be confronted with that sort of thing.
It's like someone would get up on a soapbox and yell "Bollocks!", without allowing any of the people in the accidental audience to enquire about what would be that, and why, or express an opinion of their own, because you - the 'Art'-master - are showing them 'Art' that by its very nature is above all that.
Most 'art' doesn't do just that though, but strives to be at least a statement uttered as part of a wider conversation.
The kind of art that ends up on a gallery, or even museum, wall cannot be much more than that: a single utterance. We, visitors of that gallery or museum, can only privately take in that utterance and form a response we can share with the people next to us, but noone else. The artist can not get any response, can not know how (if at all) his utterance is received. A one way street.
Applying your skills while engaged in an active exchange with a real living human being is not selling out. It is giving the artist an opportunity to be more than just a loud voice. An opportunity to actually engage in the conversation and transform the general utterance into not just a specific statement, but even a short 'episode' out of an ongoing conversation. A real exchange of ideas, out of which new ideas come.
As always, it may turn out that you and your conversational partner do not agree to such a degree that nothing more will come of it than agreeing not to agree. Then the thing should end right there.
But it may also turn out that both you and your customer gain something from the exchange (more than just you the money, the customer something he'll like to look at).
Artistic integrity is not stubbornly insisting that you are right, that the way you did and do things is the only correct way of doing things.
Artistic integrity is admitting that your views change, that the world and people around you help you grow, and that you wouldn't do things the way you did them yesterday anyway (i.e. recognizing that if you do, you're caught in a rut, a manierism, and have lost your artistic integrity).
Or in short: it's not a bad thing to work with a client at all.
It's like talking. We all mastered that 'art', but there is very little satisfaction (to most anyway) in getting together with a bunch of people evenings, just to assert to that gropu that you can indeed talk.
You apply your acquired skill to engage in a conversation, a meeting of people and their opinions, to the benefit of all (including yourself).
It's quite possible to consider 'Art' a noun that should only be written capitalized, and think that the best way to deal with it is to assert how well you have mastered it. Personally, i find it gets tired very, very soon to be confronted with that sort of thing.
It's like someone would get up on a soapbox and yell "Bollocks!", without allowing any of the people in the accidental audience to enquire about what would be that, and why, or express an opinion of their own, because you - the 'Art'-master - are showing them 'Art' that by its very nature is above all that.
Most 'art' doesn't do just that though, but strives to be at least a statement uttered as part of a wider conversation.
The kind of art that ends up on a gallery, or even museum, wall cannot be much more than that: a single utterance. We, visitors of that gallery or museum, can only privately take in that utterance and form a response we can share with the people next to us, but noone else. The artist can not get any response, can not know how (if at all) his utterance is received. A one way street.
Applying your skills while engaged in an active exchange with a real living human being is not selling out. It is giving the artist an opportunity to be more than just a loud voice. An opportunity to actually engage in the conversation and transform the general utterance into not just a specific statement, but even a short 'episode' out of an ongoing conversation. A real exchange of ideas, out of which new ideas come.
As always, it may turn out that you and your conversational partner do not agree to such a degree that nothing more will come of it than agreeing not to agree. Then the thing should end right there.
But it may also turn out that both you and your customer gain something from the exchange (more than just you the money, the customer something he'll like to look at).
Artistic integrity is not stubbornly insisting that you are right, that the way you did and do things is the only correct way of doing things.
Artistic integrity is admitting that your views change, that the world and people around you help you grow, and that you wouldn't do things the way you did them yesterday anyway (i.e. recognizing that if you do, you're caught in a rut, a manierism, and have lost your artistic integrity).
Or in short: it's not a bad thing to work with a client at all.
- Joined
- May 15, 2005
- Messages
- 1,212
- Format
- 8x10 Format
I think someone mentioned it already - but use some reverse psychology ...
Instead of charging more, charge less - explain that you think the image as cropped isn't worth as much - if you wanted to be a smarty pants you could even discount it by the % area cropped.
If they see it as a bargain then you're just selling it to an ape anyway - if they have a hint of consideration they'll get your point and maybe rethink.
Instead of charging more, charge less - explain that you think the image as cropped isn't worth as much - if you wanted to be a smarty pants you could even discount it by the % area cropped.
If they see it as a bargain then you're just selling it to an ape anyway - if they have a hint of consideration they'll get your point and maybe rethink.
The moment you decide you want to sell things to specific customers, the 'philosophy' perhaps best assumed would be that you apply your art to meet the customer.
It's like talking. We all mastered that 'art', but there is very little satisfaction (to most anyway) in getting together with a bunch of people evenings, just to assert to that gropu that you can indeed talk.
You apply your acquired skill to engage in a conversation, a meeting of people and their opinions, to the benefit of all (including yourself).
It's quite possible to consider 'Art' a noun that should only be written capitalized, and think that the best way to deal with it is to assert how well you have mastered it. Personally, i find it gets tired very, very soon to be confronted with that sort of thing.
It's like someone would get up on a soapbox and yell "Bollocks!", without allowing any of the people in the accidental audience to enquire about what would be that, and why, or express an opinion of their own, because you - the 'Art'-master - are showing them 'Art' that by its very nature is above all that.
Most 'art' doesn't do just that though, but strives to be at least a statement uttered as part of a wider conversation.
The kind of art that ends up on a gallery, or even museum, wall cannot be much more than that: a single utterance. We, visitors of that gallery or museum, can only privately take in that utterance and form a response we can share with the people next to us, but noone else. The artist can not get any response, can not know how (if at all) his utterance is received. A one way street.
Applying your skills while engaged in an active exchange with a real living human being is not selling out. It is giving the artist an opportunity to be more than just a loud voice. An opportunity to actually engage in the conversation and transform the general utterance into not just a specific statement, but even a short 'episode' out of an ongoing conversation. A real exchange of ideas, out of which new ideas come.
As always, it may turn out that you and your conversational partner do not agree to such a degree that nothing more will come of it than agreeing not to agree. Then the thing should end right there.
But it may also turn out that both you and your customer gain something from the exchange (more than just you the money, the customer something he'll like to look at).
Artistic integrity is not stubbornly insisting that you are right, that the way you did and do things is the only correct way of doing things.
Artistic integrity is admitting that your views change, that the world and people around you help you grow, and that you wouldn't do things the way you did them yesterday anyway (i.e. recognizing that if you do, you're caught in a rut, a manierism, and have lost your artistic integrity).
Or in short: it's not a bad thing to work with a client at all.
If you crop this statement down to half I will read it.
;-)
Dennis
MattKing
Moderator
Maybe the client's idea is a good one. How does it look when you crop your photograph the way the client has requested?
If the result is good, but just different, then tell the client that the custom cropping attracts a premium price, and sell it to them.
If the result is bad, don't do it.
Also, I would enquire as to the reason for the custom crop. If it is to emphasize a particular part of the image, because that part has special personal meaning to the customer, I would take the request as a compliment.
If the reason for the special crop is to fit within a decorating scheme, then you need to decide whether or not you want work of that type.
The most important question you need to ask yourself though is this: "If I accede to this request, will I have pride in the result".
Matt
If the result is good, but just different, then tell the client that the custom cropping attracts a premium price, and sell it to them.
If the result is bad, don't do it.
Also, I would enquire as to the reason for the custom crop. If it is to emphasize a particular part of the image, because that part has special personal meaning to the customer, I would take the request as a compliment.
If the reason for the special crop is to fit within a decorating scheme, then you need to decide whether or not you want work of that type.
The most important question you need to ask yourself though is this: "If I accede to this request, will I have pride in the result".
Matt
Oh... quit being a crybaby!! Just take the money like the ho' you know you are. That's what I'd do. 
I agree. My favorite version is "The guest may not be right, but they will always be treated as guests." The business, which shall remain nameless, calls all of its paying customers, guests. We as employees were required to treat every on one of them with respect even when they don't.
OP
OP
I am so appreciative of the response to my question.
I cannot thank ALL of you enough.
Steve
I cannot thank ALL of you enough.
Steve
Nameless? Perhaps. But not unrecognizable by those of us who were also employees. From 1972 to 1981 for me. Best job I ever had. Once met the man himself inside the place itself* when I was 12 years old. Still have life-long friends there, as you probably do as well.
But we digress...
Ken
* The original "place itself" in my case, for both the job and the earlier meeting.
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I wouldn't go through with the sale if the request grated against my philosophy of composition/framing. The client's request sounds quite strange to me; abstract even. If this (abstract) wasn't your intention when the image was created, why would you change it now?
The customer is always right,
but he/she is not always technically 'switched on' with the photographer. That's where your skill is needed.
The customer is always right,
but he/she is not always technically 'switched on' with the photographer. That's where your skill is needed.
When i am HIRED to do an image for the customer. I give them what they want. But if it's some of my artful images found in my potfolio. They come as is. In this kind of Photography i shoot what i see.
Nicholas Lindan
Advertiser
1) The customer is always right;
2) The customer is right even when he's wrong;
3) As soon as the customer is wrong he's no longer your customer;
4) There are some customers you are just better off without.
2) The customer is right even when he's wrong;
3) As soon as the customer is wrong he's no longer your customer;
4) There are some customers you are just better off without.
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1. Collect client's money.
2. Deliver the cropped print.
3. Smile and politely say, "Thank you, kind sir".
4. Go to nearsest pub and get into a drunken brawl.
5. Wake up late the next morning in too much pain to even care about the crop.
6. This is your life as a photo ho'... but at least ya' ain't a slut 'coz ya' got paid.
2. Deliver the cropped print.
3. Smile and politely say, "Thank you, kind sir".
4. Go to nearsest pub and get into a drunken brawl.
5. Wake up late the next morning in too much pain to even care about the crop.
6. This is your life as a photo ho'... but at least ya' ain't a slut 'coz ya' got paid.
sell the print as you would have printed it, then offer to help them get a mat to "crop" it down to what THEY want to see(that 4x8 ratio).
then, in the end, you BOTH get what YOU wanted.
-Dan
then, in the end, you BOTH get what YOU wanted.
-Dan
Well, actually, there are lots of cases where people have done this to fit frames, or, in the cases of very large works, to fit into smaller rooms.... Some have even had holes cut in them for windows or doors! Wasn't the Mona Lisa trimmed slightly to fit a frame at one stage?
To the original poster, I have had people ask me to change colours in images, print larger, smaller, crop, you name it. I have no hard and fast rules. If the image is one you took yourself as a personal work. but holds it's integrity with the change then consider it. If it is a commissioned or commercial work, then the patron/commissioner/client should, potentially, have a say in the final image.
Or maybe think of it as a collaborative work and get the purchaser to sign the print as well. They might just enjoy that and work with you more.
My initial response when I saw this post was, "What?! No way."
It still is.
It still is.
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