Classic D-76 formula : is there a way to improve it?

Pat Erson · Feb 22, 2014

Hello,

I've been making my own D-76 for several months now, following the ancient/classic recipe (Metol 2 g. Hydroquinone 5 g. Borax 2 g. SS 100 g.) and I was wondering if there was a way to improve it by slightly altering the formula : for example replacing the borax with boric acid for more stability in time, or increasing the amount of SS to get a gentler grain?

I noticed that with the homemade brew I got a shadow loss I didn't have when I used the Kodak stuff.

Thx for all the suggestions you might make... and I want to keep my dev as a one-bath thing.

Rudeofus · Feb 22, 2014

Assume that Kodak spent a fair amount of effort into optimizing the D-76 formula. But, like every other developer formula, D-76 strikes a balance between film speed, sharpness and grain, and there is a chance that this balance is not where you want it. If you, e.g. don't care about grain but want better sharpness and film speed, then you can certainly improve the formula to better suit your personal needs. You can also introduce other development agents and improve all three properties, but that requires more work and testing than just some tweaking of developer composition. How far are you willing to go?

Xmas · Feb 22, 2014

You could use a boric acid/borax homebrew to hold the pH more constant but one of the alternative published formula may be better.

The massive development chart site has lots of formula

Eg ID-68 - but you would need phenodine or one of the derivatives... and a scale resolution of 0.01 gm

1/3 stop gain same contrast normally

cliveh · Feb 22, 2014

Classic D-76 formula : is there a way to improve it?

No.

erikg · Feb 22, 2014

Dividing it has some benefits.

removed account4 · Feb 22, 2014

making it metol free like sprint did ? has some benefits too

mopar_guy · Feb 22, 2014

Well, the Formulary thinks so:

http://stores.photoformulary.com/td-16-improved-d-76/

BradS · Feb 22, 2014

I guess it depens upon what you think would make an improvement...a B&W film developers has many attributes - each of which might be optimized over some others. Certainly, Kodak, with its massive R&D budget did make improvements to the product they packaged and sold as D76 from time to time. In the process, they also came up with new products, like HC-110 and Xtol - each of which offers something to like over D76.

Xmas · Feb 22, 2014

cliveh said:
Classic D-76 formula : is there a way to improve it?

No.

Pat has already detected the packets are different from the original formula... they are more stable...

Pat Erson · Feb 22, 2014

Yup they don't have the contrast increase the homemade brew has. And I get a tad more shadow detail with the Kodak stuff.

RE grain it's hard to assess because I only use TRI-X which is fairly grainy. Shall I raise the amount of SS to 105 g. per liter to accentuate the solvent effect?

Tom1956 · Feb 22, 2014

Kodak had spent gajillions of dollars and man-hour time on these formulas. I think any teeny little nuance of change one way or another by tinkering with the formulas is a non-productive waste of time. So far as reducing the grain, that's why they made Microdol. I'm sure it's a lot of fun playing with these formulas if you have nothing else to to. But in the end, you'll most likely end up right where you were in the first place. It's my firm belief if you just pour it out of the package and mix it up and use it and move on, you'll have more time to do more pictures.

Xmas · Feb 22, 2014

Hi Pat

you seem to be able to detect the limitations.

If you want to stay with MQ then increasing the sulphite will reduce the grain but still leave you with a pH drift and will slow the speed though not detectably, you probably need to try more than 5%.

You could try other formula...

http://www.digitaltruth.com/data.php

lots available..

I get asthma and skin problems so I went to PQ but I like grain.

Noel

gone · Feb 22, 2014

Is there a way to improve D76? Yes, they could throw in a free roll of Tri-X w/ each order :]

I've been using the TD-16 myself, and love it. It is a teeny, tiny bit different on tonality than D76 (fresh D76 that is), but on prints there is zero difference. So I'm happy. It does exactly what they said it would do. Haven't used it long enough to confirm the 6 month stability claim, but will report back if there's any issues, which I doubt. Great developer, especially if you shoot Tri-X. The stability over time has been my only complaint about D76, and this switch to TD-16 looks to have resolved that issue.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 22, 2014

Here is my home-brewed D-76 variant. Been making and using this for years. My normal dilution is one-shot 1+1, also using distilled water for the diluting.

In full, sealed brown glass bottles the undiluted stock solution will keep for over a year when unopened. Not even a change in color. I don't know how far over a year, as that's my self-imposed limit to dump it if still around. Partially full bottles are gas-blanketed as they are used.

My darkroom ambient temperatures range from upper-50sF/mid-14sC in winter to mid-70sF/low-20sC in summer. The formula is buffered, so there is no significant change in its activity over the course of the year. At least that I've been able to see.

Ken

(Sorry, tried to make the following table without the grid lines, but that option doesn't seem to work? Anyone know how to do that?)

[table="width: 350, align: left"]

Kodak D-76d Stock Solution

Water (distilled) at 125F/52C
[td="align: right"]750.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]ml[/td]

Metol
[td="align: right"]2.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Sodium sulfite (anhydrous)
[td="align: right"]100.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Hydroquinone
[td="align: right"]5.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Borax (decahydrate)
[td="align: right"]8.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Boric acid (crystalline)
[td="align: right"]8.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Water to make
[td="align: right"]1000.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]ml[/td]

[/table]

RattyMouse · Feb 22, 2014

Anyone who can't use up a liter of D-76 in 1 year is simply not shooting enough film!

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 22, 2014

That's very true...

Ken

Roger Cole · Feb 22, 2014

Heck I'll use up a liter, almost, in one session if I use my 4x5 deep tanks, 1/2 gallon at 1+1.

Yeah, I know deep tanks are meant to be used with replinished developer but D76 is pretty cheap by the gallon.

timhenrion · Feb 22, 2014

I seemed to remember reading a quote from Geoffrey Crawley in the Darkroom Cookbook that where he stated that he tried for years to tweak/improve D-76 to no avail. Getting 'better' results required starting anew with other developing agents.

If you're looking for something along the lines of a "better D-76", FX-15 is a good starting point. Its awesome. and one of the few popular developers with three developer agents (MPQ).

PhotoJim · Feb 22, 2014

jnanian said:
making it metol free like sprint did ? has some benefits too

The hydroquinone is inactive in D-76 (except for regenerative effect, perhaps) so if there's no metol in it, it's not D-76 anymore.

Keith Tapscott. · Feb 23, 2014

I have tried a few variants of D-76 (ID-11) from raw components, but I decided that there is very little benefit over buying Kodak's own packed D-76.

I do like DK-76 though.

Pat Erson · Feb 23, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Anyone who can't use up a liter of D-76 in 1 year is simply not shooting enough film!

I used 3 (1 gal.) packs of Kodak D-76 per month so mixing my own brew makes a lot of $ense to me...

Xmas · Feb 23, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Here is my home-brewed D-76 variant. Been making and using this for years. My normal dilution is one-shot 1+1, also using distilled water for the diluting.

In full, sealed brown glass bottles the undiluted stock solution will keep for over a year when unopened. Not even a change in color. I don't know how far over a year, as that's my self-imposed limit to dump it if still around. Partially full bottles are gas-blanketed as they are used.

My darkroom ambient temperatures range from upper-50sF/mid-14sC in winter to mid-70sF/low-20sC in summer. The formula is buffered, so there is no significant change in its activity over the course of the year. At least that I've been able to see.

Ken

(Sorry, tried to make the following table without the grid lines, but that option doesn't seem to work? Anyone know how to do that?)

[table="width: 350, align: left"]

Kodak D-76d Stock Solution

Water (distilled) at 125F/52C
[td="align: right"]750.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]ml[/td]

Metol
[td="align: right"]2.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Sodium sulfite (anhydrous)
[td="align: right"]100.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Hydroquinone
[td="align: right"]5.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Borax (decahydrate)
[td="align: right"]8.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Boric acid (crystalline)
[td="align: right"]8.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]g[/td]

Water to make
[td="align: right"]1000.0[/td]
[td="align: left"]ml[/td]

[/table]

@Pat
You could use this formula as is or reduce the boric acid by 50%.
Either may need more time than D76, be finer grained and slow the film, but might not be detectably so.
But should not alter in performance until exhaustion.

D76 was a cheap dev for commerce...

Gerald C Koch · Feb 24, 2014

The maximum solvency of sulfite for silver halide occurs at about 75 g/l. I would decrease the amount of sodium sulfite to 75 g/l. This what was realized when Xtol was formulated. Use more sulfite and your just wasting money.

Athiril · Feb 24, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
The maximum solvency of sulfite for silver halide occurs at about 75 g/l. If you use D-76 FS then I would decrease the amount of sodium sulfite to 75 g/l.

Sorry, but this is a total myth.

Bottom is 100g/L. Top is approx 85g/L.

There is a small but visible difference between these two values, which are both above the myth of the 75g/L limit.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 24, 2014

Athiril said:
Sorry, but this is a total myth.

Bottom is 100g/L. Top is approx 85g/L.

There is a small but visible difference between these two values, which are both above the myth of the 75g/L limit.

Sorry, not a myth, go read Haist's book for more on the subject.

Classic D-76 formula : is there a way to improve it?

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