Classic cameras and modern flash compatability??

Larry the sailor · Aug 12, 2016

I've got a bit of modern flash gear that I use with my "other format" camera. Specifically I've got Youngnuo YN600-EX-RT speedlights and a YN-E3-RT transmitter.
I've got a Yashicamat 124 and a I'm expecting delivery next week of a Mamiya RB67 Pro
Both of those have only the PC connection for flash sync.
I know everything would have to be in manual mode with the associated exposure considerations.
My question is would I be able to trigger the YN-E3-RT transmitter using a PC to hot shoe cable to remotely trigger the speedlights?

frank · Aug 12, 2016

Some flashes have an on-board automatic exposure system that senses the reflection off the subject to control exposure. These thyristor flash units are easy to use with manual cameras.

wiltw · Aug 12, 2016

The answer to your question lies ENTIRELY on the Yungnuo's ability/inability to operate in the absence of ETTL (or whatever digital protocol of the digital automated flash system) control signals.

Kirks518 · Aug 12, 2016

That's one way (using the YN-E3-RT transmitter), but IMO, really no reason to use such a 'sophisticated' transmitter. Because there is no TTL of any type on either camera, there is no reason for carrying around such a relatively large transmitter.

All you really need is a hot shoe with a PC cord, like this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89982-REG/Hama_HA_6952_Hot_Shoe_Adapter_2.html , which is what I use. You can mount that to a flash bracket, or the cold shoe, and you're good to go.

If you're looking for OCF, I'll either use a PC extension cord, or (most of the time) I use my el-cheapo Yongnuo RF-602's, which have served me just fine for 4 or 5 years now. You'll still need the Hama linked above.

I also use Wein slaves when using multiple flashes - Dead Link Removed

wiltw · Aug 13, 2016

Kirks518 said:
That's one way (using the YN-E3-RT transmitter), but IMO, really no reason to use such a 'sophisticated' transmitter. Because there is no TTL of any type on either camera, there is no reason for carrying around such a relatively large transmitter.

All you really need is a hot shoe with a PC cord, like this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89982-REG/Hama_HA_6952_Hot_Shoe_Adapter_2.html , which is what I use. You can mount that to a flash bracket, or the cold shoe, and you're good to go.

If you're looking for OCF, I'll either use a PC extension cord, or (most of the time) I use my el-cheapo Yongnuo RF-602's, which have served me just fine for 4 or 5 years now. You'll still need the Hama linked above.

I also use Wein slaves when using multiple flashes - Dead Link Removed

Of course, what is suggested assumes that the flash unit even HAS a PC cord connector socket on it, which most digital-compatible flash units do not.

Kirks518 · Aug 13, 2016

wiltw, what I linked to on the B+H site is a hot shoe that connects via PC to the camera, and then you have a hot shoe on a camera that only has a cold shoe (or no shoe at all).

Kirks518 · Aug 13, 2016

There is also this one, which does not have a built-in PC cord (you supply your own) - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89979-REG/Hama_HA_6951_Hot_Shoe_Adapter_1.html

I also have this one, but I hardly use it - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89977-REG/Hama_HA_6950_Universal_Flash_Adapter.html

HAMA makes a bunch of different hot/cold shoe PC things that allow for use of triggers and modern flash units on non-hot shoe cameras. Just put "hama" into the B+H search box, and you'll find tons.

wiltw · Aug 13, 2016

Kirks518 said:
wiltw, what I linked to on the B+H site is a hot shoe that connects via PC to the camera, and then you have a hot shoe on a camera that only has a cold shoe (or no shoe at all).

My take on the OP statement, "...using a PC to hot shoe cable to remotely trigger the speedlights??" is an indication that he wants the flash off the camera by some distance, precluding the use of a hotshoe... a PC cable to PC connector on flash unit

Kirks518 · Aug 13, 2016

wiltw said:
My take on the OP statement, "...using a PC to hot shoe cable to remotely trigger the speedlights??" is an indication that he wants the flash off the camera by some distance, precluding the use of a hotshoe... a PC cable to PC connector on flash unit

Sure, with any of those you just put your trigger on the PC-hot shoe adapter, and put your flash(es) wherever you want.

Larry the sailor · Aug 13, 2016

Only reason I'm trying to use the "sophisticated" stuff is because I already have it. Thanks for the suggestions, B&H will be getting some more of my hard earned cash next week, needed to order some film anyway.

MattKing · Aug 13, 2016

One caution.
"Classic cameras" might be interpreted to mean old cameras.
Old cameras tend to have shutters with flash synch circuits that are mechanical in nature (essentially mechanical switches), and those circuits were designed in the days when many flashes had fairly high trigger voltages. Like everything else, sometimes synch circuits may need service in order to work properly.

The newer flashes tend to have low trigger voltages. If an older synch circuit has higher than optimum/normal resistance (needs service), a low voltage trigger may not work as well as a higher voltage trigger.

wiltw · Aug 13, 2016

MattKing said:
One caution.
"Classic cameras" might be interpreted to mean old cameras.
Old cameras tend to have shutters with flash synch circuits that are mechanical in nature (essentially mechanical switches), and those circuits were designed in the days when many flashes had fairly high trigger voltages. Like everything else, sometimes synch circuits may need service in order to work properly.

The newer flashes tend to have low trigger voltages. If an older synch circuit has higher than optimum/normal resistance (needs service), a low voltage trigger may not work as well as a higher voltage trigger.

True, yet it is highly unlikely that an eTTL/dTTL/iTTL flash made for modern digital cameras would cause any grief for cameras like RB67 or Yashicamat mechanical contacts.

Kirks518 said:
Sure, with any of those you just put your trigger on the PC-hot shoe adapter, and put your flash(es) wherever you want.

...bringing us full circle to wondering if the Yungnuo radio trigger will operate (or not) in the absence of eTTL/dTTL/iTTL protocol signals from the camera, as I pointed out in post #3.

I just read the user manual for the Yungnuo flash trigger, and it is UNCLEAR about non-digitalTTL operation. It mentions 'Manual' mode, yet it also mentions 1-st curtain, HSS, and 2nd-curtain flash, and HSS operation is absolutely dependent upon the digitalTTL command from camera to flash to command the long-duration output of light!

M Carter · Aug 13, 2016

You also will need to test for flash synch speed. Some cameras (like leaf shutters) synch up to 1/500th, others only 1/60th.

Very old cameras have their flash triggering set up for flash bulbs, not electronic flashes. The bulbs are less instantaneous and take a few ms. to get to full brightness, so the flash is tripped a hair earlier in the cycle (x-synch vs m-synch - with some cameras this is switchable). (I have an old Brownie which I bent the flash contacts to trigger at the right time). Another thing to test.

Kirks518 · Aug 13, 2016

wiltw said:
True, yet it is highly unlikely that an eTTL/dTTL/iTTL flash made for modern digital cameras would cause any grief for cameras like RB67 or Yashicamat mechanical contacts.

...bringing us full circle to wondering if the Yungnuo radio trigger will operate (or not) in the absence of eTTL/dTTL/iTTL protocol signals from the camera, as I pointed out in post #3.

I just read the user manual for the Yungnuo flash trigger, and it is UNCLEAR about non-digitalTTL operation. It mentions 'Manual' mode, yet it also mentions 1-st curtain, HSS, and 2nd-curtain flash, and HSS operation is absolutely dependent upon the digitalTTL command from camera to flash to command the long-duration output of light!

I have, and have used the YN568II flash, as well as the YN622 triggers (the more sophisticated trigger) on my RB67 and M645, with this 'adapter'

AFAIK, all of the YongNuo flashes/triggers can be used in full manual mode, so all that is needed is a hot shoe to make them work. I'm 99.999% sure the OP won;t have any problems with the configuration. In this case, I would turn off any auto features of the trigger and the flash, and just set the flash to fire however I want it to, and let the YN-E3-RT transmitter just be a brainless trigger.

M Carter said:
You also will need to test for flash synch speed. Some cameras (like leaf shutters) synch up to 1/500th, others only 1/60th.

Very old cameras have their flash triggering set up for flash bulbs, not electronic flashes. The bulbs are less instantaneous and take a few ms. to get to full brightness, so the flash is tripped a hair earlier in the cycle (x-synch vs m-synch - with some cameras this is switchable). (I have an old Brownie which I bent the flash contacts to trigger at the right time). Another thing to test.

The Yashica 124 (and 124G) sync at all speeds with electronic flash. Just make sure the switch is set to X-sync, and he'll be fine.

MattKing · Aug 13, 2016

wiltw said:
True, yet it is highly unlikely that an eTTL/dTTL/iTTL flash made for modern digital cameras would cause any grief for cameras like RB67 or Yashicamat mechanical contacts.

I may have been unclear.
If the Classic camera's synch circuit needs work, it may have trouble triggering a modern, low trigger voltage flash.

mweintraub · Aug 15, 2016

As said, if you can use manual mode/power with the triggers, you're golden. I've used modern triggers on my older cameras.

New Godox X1 system with the RZ67: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/27518023173
CTR-301p with RZ67: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/13417509993
Wired PC Sync connection on Yashica 35: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/2532182509
CTR-301p with Kiev 60: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/4195656145
Wired/Hotshoe? speedlight with Yashica 124G: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/4204534841

canvassy · Aug 15, 2016

I use modern speedlights and triggers on classic cameras too.

I have a few of the Yongnuo 560 III's, which are manual only, and an Aperlite speedlight which has TTL. My triggers aren't as smart as yours, I use the Yongnuo RF 603 II's.

I've successfully used these with my Bronica ETRS w/ speedgrip, and my Olympus 35RC and Olympus OMG and Minolta X570.

Soeren · Aug 15, 2016

mweintraub said:
As said, if you can use manual mode/power with the triggers, you're golden. I've used modern triggers on my older cameras.

New Godox X1 system with the RZ67: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/27518023173
CTR-301p with RZ67: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/13417509993
Wired PC Sync connection on Yashica 35: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/2532182509
CTR-301p with Kiev 60: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/4195656145
Wired/Hotshoe? speedlight with Yashica 124G: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrdat/4204534841

Just to confirm the Godox X1 system will work with pc sync cables (it has the pc port) and the cool part is you can still control the flash power on the trigger. The system should have a centerpin firing mode too but i havn't got around finding it yet.

mweintraub · Aug 15, 2016

Soeren said:
Just to confirm the Godox X1 system will work with pc sync cables (it has the pc port) and the cool part is you can still control the flash power on the trigger. The system should have a centerpin firing mode too but i havn't got around finding it yet.

It has a center pin fireing mode, but didn't need to enable it to work. But what I did find with TTL feet (typically Nikon so I hear) is that the extra pins make it very hard to push the feet onto the shoes. I found an adapter that have little ramps that help push the extra TTL pins up when being slid on. You can see it in the first photo of RZ67 listed above.

RSalles · Aug 15, 2016

I'm with my Mini Speed Graphic with a bunch of small barrel lenses, a flash male plug on the back of the Speed and nearby no hope.
In the other corner of the room, 2 pairs of Younguo Speed lights taping the fingers over the table, impatiently asking me: ready? Not ready?

Cheers,

Renato

Larry the sailor · Aug 15, 2016

Ordered the hot shoe adapter. I'll update when I get it in.

Larry the sailor · Aug 18, 2016

Well, got the hot shoe adapter. Mixed results so far.
I can trigger the speed lights (YN600 EX-RT) but it won't trigger the YN-E3-RT.
Putting the speed light on the adapter it works but also won't trigger a slave in radio mode.
They will work in optical slave. Still need to play with them some more and I hate to admit it but I might have to break out the instructions.

Kirks518 · Aug 18, 2016

Since all the adapters are just center pin firing, it must be something with the flash/triggers, unless they (the flash/triggers) need more then just the firing signl to work fully, which makes little sense to me.

trythis · Aug 19, 2016

One problem with metal cold shoes like your yashicamat is that the shoe will ground out the center pin if the adapter is designed for a hot shoe contact, it may be throwing things off.

I use a remote trigger on my 124 with the pc connector but have to tape off the base of the cold shoe to prevent shorts (random flashes)

mweintraub · Aug 19, 2016

Larry the sailor said:
Well, got the hot shoe adapter. Mixed results so far.
I can trigger the speed lights (YN600 EX-RT) but it won't trigger the YN-E3-RT.
Putting the speed light on the adapter it works but also won't trigger a slave in radio mode.
They will work in optical slave. Still need to play with them some more and I hate to admit it but I might have to break out the instructions.

It's possible the YN-E3-RT requires a TTL body to connect with. The same happens with the YN RF-602 and 603 mkI

Classic cameras and modern flash compatability??

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Classic cameras and modern flash compatability??

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