Citric acid for Kallitype developer?

[MurrayMinchin]

Hi there,

I'm about to launch into making Kallitype's using Sandy King's process & formulas: https://www.alternativephotography.com/the-kallitype-process/

When ordering supplies some months ago, I got citric acid powder instead of sodium citrate as called for by Sandy. While searching for a work-around, I found Andrew's Kallitype developer using citric acid recipe from 2014:

I just was down in the darkroom and mixed up my own sodium citrate developer from scratch. At a 3 to 1 ratio, I mixed in 3 heaping tablespoons of baking soda to 800ml tap water. Once thoroughly dissolved, I slowing mixed in 1 heaping tbls of citric acid. Topped off to one litre with water.

How did that work for you, Andrew? Anybody else use citric acid powder for their Kallitype developer? How so?

Thanks a bunch,

Murray

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Hi there,

I'm about to launch into making Kallitype's using Sandy King's process & formulas: https://www.alternativephotography.com/the-kallitype-process/

When ordering supplies some months ago, I got citric acid powder instead of sodium citrate as called for by Sandy. While searching for a work-around, I found Andrew's Kallitype developer using citric acid recipe from 2014:

How did that work for you, Andrew? Anybody else use citric acid powder for their Kallitype developer? How so?

Thanks a bunch,

Murray

I honestly can't remember if it worked out or not... I'll have to check if I kept any notes.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

So tempted to go down and revisit it...

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Hi Andrew,

In the post you said the print looked mmmarvellous when wet, but it hadn't dried down yet.

Here's the original thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/sodium-citrate-developer-for-kallitype.114932/#post-1519249

 

[nmp]

if you want more accuracy and have a balance, you can use this to calculate the amounts:

Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer

Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer

www.webqc.org

Plug in the weight of one ingredient and it will give you how much of the other.

:Niranjan.

 

[revdoc]

I've done it. You should he careful to not overdo the bicarbonate, or the results will be alkaline, which is not what you want for kallitype.

You want trisodium citrate, so 3 moles of bicarb per mole of citric acid, which I think is about 1.3 units of bicarb to each unit of citric acid, by mass. (Bicarb has a molar mass of 84 and citric acid is 192, so 3 x 84 / 192 = 1.3.)

I also made sodium acetate in a similar way, with bicarb and double strength white vinegar. I preferred the results over sodium citrate.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

if you want more accuracy and have a balance, you can use this to calculate the amounts:

Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer

Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer

www.webqc.org

Plug in the weight of one ingredient and it will give you how much of the other.

:Niranjan.

Egad...

My dad was a chemical engineer and would have giddily jumped into the deep end of that website. I, on the other hand, was brought back to that familiar feeling from long ago when my brain fogged over during high school math classes.

 

[nmp]

Egad...

My dad was a chemical engineer and would have giddily jumped into the deep end of that website. I, on the other hand, was brought back to that familiar feeling from long ago when my brain fogged over during high school math classes.

Your dad would have balanced the equation on his own and wouldn't have needed the website...

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Your dad would have balanced the equation on his own and wouldn't have needed the website...

Yup!

One day, in his later years, he had developed dementia and had gotten dehydrated. He collapsed and the ambulance was called. The paramedics asked him to count backwards from 100 in sevens, which he did effortlessly at a pretty good clip.

I suggested they might want to ask him what day, month, or year it was, which he couldn't. His brain was definitely hard-wired for math. chemistry. etc!

 

[nmp]

Yup!

One day, in his later years, he had developed dementia and had gotten dehydrated. He collapsed and the ambulance was called. The paramedics asked him to count backwards from 100 in sevens, which he did effortlessly at a pretty good clip.

I suggested they might want to ask him what day, month, or year it was, which he couldn't. His brain was definitely hard-wired for math. chemistry. etc!

Nice story. I am a ChE myself, although I ended up not practicing as such. But I can relate to your Dad.

:Niranjan.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Okay I went down and dug up my notes from 2014... I'm embarrassed to say that I used this mixture extensively that year, making several Kallitypes for a show I had over in Japan I also developed some in homemade Sodium Acetate (vinegar and baking soda).
So! I mixed up a litre of homebrew Sodium Citrate, following my sloppy recipe of 3 heaping tablespoons of baking soda, and slowly mixed in (after the baking soda was thoroughly mixed in) very slowly the heaping tablespoon of citric acid... put it in slowly as it is quite a fizzy display! If I recall, I used it one-shot. I never tested it for reuse or replenishing, like I did with regular Sodium Citrate developer.

I then made a contact print using a CatLAB 80 II test negative.

The image on the left is what it looks like after developer, clearing, and fixing... The selenium toned one is on the right. The print is still wet. Apologies for the light glare.

If I use this developer again, I will not be so sloppy. I will measure carefully, to work out the best ratio.
I hope this helps!

Andy
PS printed on Hahnemuhule PR.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Okay I went down and dug up my notes from 2014... I'm embarrassed to say that I used this mixture extensively that year, making several Kallitypes for a show I had over in Japan I also developed some in homemade Sodium Acetate (vinegar and baking soda).
So! I mixed up a litre of homebrew Sodium Citrate, following my sloppy recipe of 3 heaping tablespoons of baking soda, and slowly mixed in (after the baking soda was thoroughly mixed in) very slowly the heaping tablespoon of citric acid... put it in slowly as it is quite a fizzy display! If I recall, I used it one-shot. I never tested it for reuse or replenishing, like I did with regular Sodium Citrate developer.

I then made a contact print using a CatLAB 80 II test negative.

The image on the left is what it looks like after developer, clearing, and fixing... The selenium toned one is on the right. The print is still wet. Apologies for the light glare.

If I use this developer again, I will not be so slopping. I will measure carefully, to work out the best ratio.
I hope this helps!

Andy
PS printed on Hahnemuhule PR.

Dang, that was fast!

Looks like that'll get me up and running...thanks!!