CineStill Film Cs41 C-41 Colour Negative Film Liquid Developing Kit

[Andrew O'Neill]

 

[MattKing]

I have heard of several people in the UK use a wine box for developer storage. It is a very good idea, as you can remove the bag from the box, remove the push fit tap, wash the bag out and refill with developer. You can then refit the tap and even invert the box inside out to relabel it. You then have developer storage which is better than a tank with a floating lid, as the bag collapses in as you use the developer, dispensed from a spring loaded tap, so you don't waste any. Best of all, you have to drink the wine in the first place.

One challenge with this is that the cardboard boxes don't last well - particularly if they get wet or damp.
In addition, boxed wine used to come in mylar lined bags, which were relatively impermeable to oxygen.
Now the wine tends to come in plastic bags which are susceptible to oxygen ingress.

 

[cliveh]

One challenge with this is that the cardboard boxes don't last well - particularly if they get wet or damp.
In addition, boxed wine used to come in mylar lined bags, which were relatively impermeable to oxygen.
Now the wine tends to come in plastic bags which are susceptible to oxygen ingress.

Unless you have sloppy darkroom practice, the cardboard doesn't get wet and have you ever measured oxygen ingress into what is a double skinned plastic bag?

 

[MattKing]

Unless you have sloppy darkroom practice, the cardboard doesn't get wet and have you ever measured oxygen ingress into what is a double skinned plastic bag?

It isn't just in the darkroom that things get splashed from wine bags .
Actually, it is often the carboard flaps that hold and position the spigots that are most likely to wear out and fail, and the boxes themselves are often made out of relatively thin cardboard. There is also a tendency to store the boxes in the darkroom, which is prone to higher humidity.
As for the inner bags, there is a reason that the wine that comes in them is supposed to be consumed in a relatively short period of time. Wine won't keep for a very long time, nor will developer - at least in comparison with the old mylar lined bags or the more expensive products like StopLoss bags.

 

[cliveh]

It isn't just in the darkroom that things get splashed from wine bags .
Actually, it is often the carboard flaps that hold and position the spigots that are most likely to wear out and fail, and the boxes themselves are often made out of relatively thin cardboard. There is also a tendency to store the boxes in the darkroom, which is prone to higher humidity.
As for the inner bags, there is a reason that the wine that comes in them is supposed to be consumed in a relatively short period of time. Wine won't keep for a very long time, nor will developer - at least in comparison with the old mylar lined bags or the more expensive products like StopLoss bags.

What time period do you call a very long time? I have used D76 stock solution from a full plastic bottle I made up 5 years ago with no ill effect. Please supply some oxidation scientific facts as to you oxygen ingress statement.

 

[MattKing]

What time period do you call a very long time? I have used D76 stock solution from a full plastic bottle I made up 5 years ago with no ill effect. Please supply some oxidation scientific facts as to you oxygen ingress statement.

Anecdotally, my friends who have Dektol in the old mylar lined bags have had it last for years, while others who are using newer bags have had developer go off in periods ~ 1 - 1.5 years.
I've not re-used boxes that once had wine in them for quite some time, because I can now access new wine bags relatively easy and cheaply. My friends who do try to re-use them still tell me that the current bags around here seem also to have been designed to make it harder to remove and replace the spigot.
The possibility also exists that the bags may be better in different parts of the world. Box wine around here has generally have been shipped long distances, so the packaging may reflect high shipping costs.

 

[cliveh]

Anecdotally, my friends who have Dektol in the old mylar lined bags have had it last for years, while others who are using newer bags have had developer go off in periods ~ 1 - 1.5 years.
I've not re-used boxes that once had wine in them for quite some time, because I can now access new wine bags relatively easy and cheaply. My friends who do try to re-use them still tell me that the current bags around here seem also to have been designed to make it harder to remove and replace the spigot.
The possibility also exists that the bags may be better in different parts of the world. Box wine around here has generally have been shipped long distances, so the packaging may reflect high shipping costs.

Matt, I do accept that oxygen and other gasses can permeate plastic in the fact that plastics exist as different polymers which allow ingress of gas depending on their structure. However, just as in the importance of the principle of pressure in reverse osmosis, I would suggest that the pressure of the liquid within can considerably slow a lesser pressure without, if you get my drift. However, I think we are moving away from the OP of this thread and we should abandon our argument.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I don't mind. It's interesting.

 

[koraks]

the pressure of the liquid within can considerably slow a lesser pressure without

Maybe that's true. But still:

others who are using newer bags have had developer go off in periods ~ 1 - 1.5 years

So apparently the positive pressure inside the bag is not sufficient to stop oxidization in these newer bags for a timeframe of >6 months or so.

Btw, I purchased some of these wine bladders myself; I think they are lined with aluminum foil, which should dramatically cut back permeability. But I personally don't find them very convenient to use.

 

[MattKing]

Maybe that's true. But still:


So apparently the positive pressure inside the bag is not sufficient to stop oxidization in these newer bags for a timeframe of >6 months or so.

Btw, I purchased some of these wine bladders myself; I think they are lined with aluminum foil, which should dramatically cut back permeability. But I personally don't find them very convenient to use.

Around here, the bladders are designed to be recyclable, are accepted for recycling in lots and lots of convenient places, and don't appear to be lined with anything.
All of which leads me to believe that this is one of the many issues discussed here on Photrio that depend on your geographic location.

 

[malligator]

I lost a roll of Portra 400 I was really excited about by using some old Cinestill developer. I don't remember how old, but let's say 6 months. I now batch my C-41 and develop it all at once. I still use the Cinestill kit--it's fine--I just don't let it age.

I build up at least 4, but up to 8, rolls of color film, mix up the Cinestill kit, develop it all, then dump it.