Cibachrome paper and chemicals

[scott laursen]

I recently was gifted 10 boxes of Ilford Ciabchrome-A II paper (500 sheets). Both CRCA.44M and CPSA.1k. Also included was a p30 kit to make 2 liters of developer, fixer and bleach and a kit to make 6 liters of P30P of the same chemicals. Is there any chance this paper and these chemicals are any good?

Will P30P work on this paper?

If so, any tips on how to be successful other than the standard steps?

Finally, any chance of shooting this paper directly in my 8 x 10 camera and processing as opposed to using as enlarger paper with a color transparency?

I am looking for tips to save on chemicals and paper during the calibration testing.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Wayne]

The paper is 30+ years old. Probably worthless for any realistic purposes. Thats why they gave it away. IME even 10 year old frozen paper is sketchy.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The highlights develop crossover issues within mere months of being thawed. How long it will last in frozen and still be realistic I don't know; but 30 years is a long long time for Ciba paper. Yes people did shoot it in camera, after they fussed around with filters to establish the correct color balance. You might get something interesting and weird with old paper, but I wouldn't bet on even that. The chemicals might still be good; but the bleach is nasty stuff - mostly sulfuric acid. It's best to process this in drums with excellent ventilation or a good fume hood. If the paper does prove worthless, it is still a thick high-quality mylar useful for making cutout masks and so forth, or perhaps simply being overexposed and then processed to get a nice retainer sheet for some kind of alt process coating.

 

[scott laursen]

The highlights develop crossover issues within mere months of being thawed. How long it will last in frozen and still be realistic I don't know; but 30 years is a long long time for Ciba paper. Yes people did shoot it in camera, after they fussed around with filters to establish the correct color balance. You might get something interesting and weird with old paper, but I wouldn't bet on even that. The chemicals might still be good; but the bleach is nasty stuff - mostly sulfuric acid. It's best to process this in drums with excellent ventilation or a good fume hood. If the paper does prove worthless, it is still a thick high-quality mylar useful for making cutout masks and so forth, or perhaps simply being overexposed and then processed to get a nice retainer sheet for some kind of alt process coating.

Thanks for the thoughtful response Drew. Great ideas to re-purpose if the paper is a no go for printing. I appreciate it.

 

[scott laursen]

The paper is 30+ years old. Probably worthless for any realistic purposes. Thats why they gave it away. IME even 10 year old frozen paper is sketchy.

Thanks for responding. "Thats why they gave it away. " is a pretty strange observation since you don't have any idea of the situation. But thanks.

 

[Wayne]

Thanks for responding. "Thats why they gave it away. " is a pretty strange observation since you don't have any idea of the situation. But thanks.

Well I know the paper is probably no good, which is all I meant by it.

 

[scott laursen]

Well I know the paper is probably no good, which is all I meant by it.

Understood. Thanks.

 

[Wayne]

Understood. Thanks.

Still, I'd be interested in the results and hope you give it a try. Maybe there's something we can learn from it. I just wouldn't go in with any expectations or even much hope.

 

[scott laursen]

Still, I'd be interested in the results and hope you give it a try. Maybe there's something we can learn from it. I just wouldn't go in with any expectations or even much hope.

I will give it a try both in camera and an engagement of a slide and let you know what happens. Should be a fun project to tinker with. Thanks.

 

[Wayne]

In case the chemicals are bad you can also mix your own developer and use rapid fix. But you'll need the bleach, unless you're really motivated. P30P is all powder, I think (that kit predates my use by a few years) so it might be OK

 

[mshchem]

I loved Cibachrome . The original chemistry was indeed nasty stuff. There's recipes floating around for home brew solutions. I never used in camera.

I moved about 6 years back, when I was rebuilding my darkroom I tossed the old chemistry. I have never had good luck with old color paper.

 

[jtk]

I recently was gifted 10 boxes of Ilford Ciabchrome-A II paper (500 sheets). Both CRCA.44M and CPSA.1k. Also included was a p30 kit to make 2 liters of developer, fixer and bleach and a kit to make 6 liters of P30P of the same chemicals. Is there any chance this paper and these chemicals are any good?

Will P30P work on this paper?

If so, any tips on how to be successful other than the standard steps?

Finally, any chance of shooting this paper directly in my 8 x 10 camera and processing as opposed to using as enlarger paper with a color transparency?

I am looking for tips to save on chemicals and paper during the calibration testing.

Thanks for any input.

1) when testing in 8X10 camera shoot multiples as brackets using dark slide in your film holders
2) use conventional Dektol as developer at whatever dilution you're used to (not critical)...it worked beautifully when Ciba was alive and should work with the corpse.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Conventional developers worked OK (just OK) with the original Ciba, not with the self-masking II version. But at this point in the age of the paper, it probably makes no difference. Crossover is inevitable if the paper works at all.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Might be interesting for playing around and experimenting.

Dye bleach is probably the easiest method to re-create analog color prints and this might be a way to learn.

PE

 

[freecitizen]

I have been given a small quantity of Cibachrome A paper. Long out of date and stored at room temperature.

Having had good success with sun prints on all sorts of papers including most old black and white papers, and also Ilfocolor and a few colour papers ..... I want to try sunprinting with this Cibachrome A.

I have a good collection of darkroom chemicals and qualifications in Chemistry. The difficulty seems to be the bleach. I cannot obtain Ciba bleach here in Australia, nor can I get the sort of chemicals which I think might work. I need to find a substitute, and it doesn't need to be a perfect substitute, just a way of revealing the image in some way.

Can anyone please suggest things I could try to produce an image on this paper. Fidelity of colour reproduction is not important in any way ..... I'm just trying to make artistic photos and will happily accept whatever result the paper might give me.

 

[dE fENDER]

I have been given a small quantity of Cibachrome A paper. Long out of date and stored at room temperature.

Having had good success with sun prints on all sorts of papers including most old black and white papers, and also Ilfocolor and a few colour papers ..... I want to try sunprinting with this Cibachrome A.

I have a good collection of darkroom chemicals and qualifications in Chemistry. The difficulty seems to be the bleach. I cannot obtain Ciba bleach here in Australia, nor can I get the sort of chemicals which I think might work. I need to find a substitute, and it doesn't need to be a perfect substitute, just a way of revealing the image in some way.

Can anyone please suggest things I could try to produce an image on this paper. Fidelity of colour reproduction is not important in any way ..... I'm just trying to make artistic photos and will happily accept whatever result the paper might give me.

Look for 2,3-dihydroxyquinoxaline (cas 15804-19-0) or phenazine (cas 92-82-0), both are usable as catalyzers. You will need only 0.1 g per/l.
The basic formula from PE https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/cibachrome-bleach-recipe.26124/#post-365130, time about 2 min.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I gave a formula using Quinoline as it is sometimes more available, but you can use Phenazine or other catalysts. See the patent in the next post at the above URL.

PE

 

[adamlugi]

This paper will be blue :-( not black after develop.

 

[dE fENDER]

This paper will be blue :-( not black after develop.

It is controllable with exposition, bleach time & amount of acid, but I couldn't get anything useful on paper older than 1990.

P.S. And don't forget of antifog in developer.

 

[Šimon Vejvančický]

I recently was gifted 10 boxes of Ilford Ciabchrome-A II paper (500 sheets). Both CRCA.44M and CPSA.1k. Also included was a p30 kit to make 2 liters of developer, fixer and bleach and a kit to make 6 liters of P30P of the same chemicals. Is there any chance this paper and these chemicals are any good?

Will P30P work on this paper?

If so, any tips on how to be successful other than the standard steps?

Finally, any chance of shooting this paper directly in my 8 x 10 camera and processing as opposed to using as enlarger paper with a color transparency?

I am looking for tips to save on chemicals and paper during the calibration testing.

Thanks for any input.

Hallo Scott, did you Finaly tryed? What was the results? What was the expiration of your paper?
I have some P30 and some paper as well. I don’t mind color shifts and wondering if I should deed up with my own experiments

 

[Šimon Vejvančický]

It is controllable with exposition, bleach time & amount of acid, but I couldn't get anything useful on paper older than 1990.

P.S. And don't forget of antifog in developer.

Do you Mean that with more concentrated bleach this blue become black again?

 

[dE fENDER]

Do you Mean that with more concentrated bleach this blue become black again?

No, it won't. The blue instead of black is usual fog and it is possible to get rid of this by changing processing by usual methods: low temperature developing, changing exposition, developing time & bleach time, adding antifog agents and so on...

 

[Šimon Vejvančický]

Thank you for update, but do you know which step specific would control this usual blue fog?

 

[dE fENDER]

Thank you for update, but do you know which step specific would control this usual blue fog?

For old paper about 1996 I used benzotriazole in bw developer, increase exposition and decrease time in first bleach, to about 1.5 min (instead 2 - 3 min for fresh paper) (I use self-made bleaches and developer, first with phenazine, second from RA-4).

 

[Wayne]

For old paper about 1996 I used benzotriazole in bw developer, increase exposition and decrease time in first bleach, to about 1.5 min (instead 2 - 3 min for fresh paper) (I use self-made bleaches and developer, first with phenazine, second from RA-4).

and when were you doing this? In other words how old was the paper at the time? I very much doubt you could completely eliminate the deep purpley color cast I got with 10 year old paper that had been frozen much of that time, but I didn't try too hard. It appeared hopeless and not worth wasting time on. I tried filtration, which did nothing, and gave up.