Cibachrome/Ilfochrome

[reinierv]

Anyone ever thought if it would be possible to recreate this?
Would it be very complex?

 

[David Brown]

Possible: Maybe
Complex: Yes
Economically feasible: No

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The chemistry is rather straight forward however recreating the paper would be a problem. Are the Ciba and Ilford patents still in effect? You would also have to find a company willing to manufacture the paper. This would be very difficult with the diminishing interest in analog photography.

 

[bvy]

I thought Stephen Frizza was working on this... ?

 

[Rudeofus]

PhotoEngineer claims it's one of the easiest color processes to fully create yourself, but that doesn't mean one can do it as a first time home brew project. Expect a few years of learning, researching and experimenting before you have something worthwhile, but according to him it can be done without special facilities.

 

[Wayne]

How about Kodachrome?

 

[AgX]

Ilford did not invent Silver-dye-bleach materials nor have they been the only ones to make such.

As with all these type of resurection questions: a lot had been made and a lot can be made.

But, will it be made?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kodachrome, like Dye Bleach is easy to re-create - when compared to E6 and C41 type materials. It is still a lengthy and complex job. I know intellectually how to do the DB, and in-fact have done it at EK. Here at home I have made a single color layer and it worked, so it is doable. Same with KChrome. Do able. I have not tried, but I hear of experimenters who are trying to do it, but not commercially.

PE

 

[Athiril]

Kodachrome, like Dye Bleach is easy to re-create - when compared to E6 and C41 type materials. It is still a lengthy and complex job. I know intellectually how to do the DB, and in-fact have done it at EK. Here at home I have made a single color layer and it worked, so it is doable. Same with KChrome. Do able. I have not tried, but I hear of experimenters who are trying to do it, but not commercially.

PE

If someone can make a Kodachrome type film... that is multilayer B&W that's split with spectral sensitisation.. couldn't they just add rudimentary dye couplers in each layer? Ones that aren't water soluble for some basic colour film not necessarily matched to E-6 or C-41 process.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Making the coupler dispersions (if the chemicals were obtainable) would be the problem there. There is no such thing as a "rudimentary" coupler, but there are "rudimentary" azo dyes.

PE

 

[reinierv]

@photo engineer

You say it would be possible and not too complex...
would it be possible to make it like liquid emulsion? BW is easy to put on all sorts of materials, but for color I found nothing.
I think there would be a market for that

 

[Rudeofus]

You'd have to make it at least "three liquid emulsions", one for each color channel.

 

[Stephen Frizza]

I thought Stephen Frizza was working on this... ?

Maybe one day! At the moment I'm quietly trying to teach myself Dye Transfer Printing.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

You'd have to make it at least "three liquid emulsions", one for each color channel.

Can I buy the dyes and inkjet on paper ? Or Can I inject the emulsions ? How many dyes per emulsion ? One or more ?

 

[Terry Christian]

A few months ago, I received a small supply of Cibachrome/Ilfochrome paper in a trade. Without the required chemistry, can I do anything with it at all with regular B&W or C-41 chemistry at all, even experimenting? Or is it good for nothing at this point?

 

[Photo Engineer]

You cannot get any sort of image from B&W or chromogenic color development using dye bleach materials. The material will remain totally black. Only with the special bleach solution will there be color. And the imaging dyes are all azo dyes, which are a special class of colored organic chemicals. I use Solantine Yellow, Solantine Pink and Chicago Blue. None of these are noted for good light stability, and the Chicago Blue is, as its name says, blue and not cyan. So my images are not perfect.

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

Can I buy the dyes and inkjet on paper ? Or Can I inject the emulsions ? How many dyes per emulsion ? One or more ?

I have very little (and unsuccessful) experience with B&W liquid emulsion so far, but the biggest challenge I see with inkjetting it will be the required temperature. Liquid emulsion is not liquid at room temperature, and I predict this will cause all kinds of issues with inkjet nozzles.

 

[Terry Christian]

Thanks for the info. I was hoping I could at least use it for photograms, contact prints, or some such. Sounds like it's totally worthless, then.

 

[Wayne]

You could trade for some worthless p30 chemicals

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear All,

SDB Silver Dye Bleach process is very easily understood... anybody out there who can coat 19 distinct layers in two passes through a coating machine at 70m per minute.......should be a piece of cake.....?

Anyone could do it as long as they were called ILFORD / Eastman KODAK / FUJI / Agfa Gaveart.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

 

[Rudeofus]

Anyone could do it as long as they were called ILFORD / Eastman KODAK / FUJI / Agfa Gaveart.

The question remains: for how many minutes would this machine have to run to make this a worthwhile effort for Harman/Ilford? And how much would such a minimal run cost (an order of magnitude estimate would probably do)?

 

[eng1er]

I would love to have me some Cibachrome again. Unfortunately, even 10,000 like-minded individuals probably wouldn't justify Ilford's rereleasing it. Once galleries/museums/archives (or their budgets) decided that digitization and it's attendant printing options was the best workflow for transparencies, there was no going back. Close enough for government work as they say. Seems to be the way of the world these days. Sad to lose those processes.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Dear All,

SDB Silver Dye Bleach process is very easily understood... anybody out there who can coat 19 distinct layers in two passes through a coating machine at 70m per minute.......should be a piece of cake.....?

Anyone could do it as long as they were called ILFORD / Eastman KODAK / FUJI / Agfa Gaveart.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

And I just did a 6 layer coating for demonstration purposes! I know how hard it is. But, I can do it at home, handcoating one layer at a time, and I can do it with 9 layers or less. However, I never will claim that it has the quality of Ilfords product. Just as a chromogenic color product would be far worse than any E6 or C41 product. The defects alone, which accumulate with handcoating many layers will set you back.

Even so, dye bleach is possible, but no color material will be "good" if made at home.

PE

 

[Bob Carnie]

Labs world wide were making Cibachromes via laser printers for years... Ilford (Switzerland) were basically incompetent in their marketing and delivery of the product.

I had orders to complete and would be consistently screwed over in material supply problems... Finally it was impossible to get timely product and therefore my lab and others decided it was an impossible product to deliver and make profitable.

I had been printing Cibachrome optically with complex masking for over 20 years before I started printing them digitally.. the digital prints actually were better IMO . Budget was not a concern as optical prints with masks were every bit as expensive as digital print.. the price did not go down.

I do not miss Cibachrome.. for example people will boast that they were more permanent than RA4- in light both have the same basic problems.. ciba's secret were their dark storage capabilities.

I would love to have me some Cibachrome again. Unfortunately, even 10,000 like-minded individuals probably wouldn't justify Ilford's rereleasing it. Once galleries/museums/archives (or their budgets) decided that digitization and it's attendant printing options was the best workflow for transparencies, there was no going back. Close enough for government work as they say. Seems to be the way of the world these days. Sad to lose those processes.

 

[eng1er]

I wish I had any optical printing process available for transparencies.