Choosing a tank

Lumipan · Mar 3, 2023

Hi, am I better off with a new Jobo 1510, a used Peterson system 4 or a Kalimar (old, but looks in mint condition) stainless steel with a plastic lid? Pricewise they are all in 30-40€ range, stainless being the least expensive. My friend said he'll borrow a plastic one to me, but he can't find it as he moved recently, therefore I'm leaning towards stainless as he'll find it eventually...

Can't decide as I've never used one. The film is waiting in the fridge and the other one has 15 more shots to go. I read about stand developing, I'm interested in trying that too, probably I need a bit bigger tank as Rodinal says 5ml minimum so it should be 500ml at least

Thanks

aparat · Mar 3, 2023

Lumipan said:
Hi, am I better off with a new Jobo 1510, a used Peterson system 4 or a Kalimar (old, but looks in mint condition) stainless steel with a plastic lid? Pricewise they are all in 30-40€ range, stainless being the least expensive. My friend said he'll borrow a plastic one to me, but he can't find it as he moved recently, therefore I'm leaning towards stainless as he'll find it eventually...

Can't decide as I've never used one. The film is waiting in the fridge and the other one has 15 more shots to go. I read about stand developing, I'm interested in trying that too, probably I need a bit bigger tank as Rodinal says 5ml minimum so it should be 500ml at least

Thanks

It's a matter of personal preference. For years, I used stainless steel tanks, but a few years ago I converted to Jobo. I find the tanks and reels to be superb, both for rotary and inversion agitation. I'd recommend you try the 1510 or 1520.

Dustin McAmera · Mar 3, 2023

~~The Leopard 2 is popular, if you can get anyone to sell you one.~~

I use a steel tank which I bought second-hand. The joint to the lid (steel lid too) is a bit worn, and it leaks a little liquid. I control that by putting a wide rubber band over the joint.

I also have a Paterson tank, which never leaks if I have the lid on correctly. Other people have had different experiences.

I like the Paterson because you can pour the liquids in and out really fast. My steel tank is quite slow to fill and empty. The Paterson tank uses slightly more solution to cover any size of film than the steel one does.
I hate the Paterson reels, which often stick while I'm loading the film. It's really the steel reels that made me choose the steel tank.

Mick Fagan · Mar 3, 2023

The Paterson tank should be very good, depends upon which model as there are different sizes. The Paterson reels are not as user friendly as the Jobo reels, but they do work well.

The stainless steel tank and reel(s) are usually quite good, but if the reel has been dropped or badly twisted, they can be a bit hard to load the film on to them. Stainless tanks, I've had two different ones, both leaked around the lid no matter what I did. That said, both stainless tanks were never a problem.

Jobo equipment is really very good, it must be as so much of it has been used by professional and amateur photographers all around the world.

Think of Jobo as a film and paper processing system, similar to Canon, Nikon, Pentax cameras etc. as a photographic film exposure system.

The 1510 is the smallest of them and is perfect for a single roll of 35mm film. You can build the 1510 into a larger tank with the addition of the 1530 extension module. This extension module holds 3 35mm rolls of film. This combination is called a 1540. The system is 15 and the next two numbers denote the number of 35mm films the combination or single tank can develop.

A Jobo 1520 is possibly a better choice, it develops 2 rolls of 35mm or 1 roll of 35mm, your choice. But it can also develop 1 or 2 rolls of 120 film if in the future you purchase a medium format camera.

You can join a 1520 tank with a 1530 module which will allow you to develop 5 rolls of 35mm film. Mixing and matching various parts of the Jobo system can be handy further down the track.

The Jobo system as far as I know, uses less developer than any other system, so efficiency of chemistry is the best.

As it seems that you are a complete beginner with film, you will need to find from somewhere some old film that allows you to practice loading onto the reel. Doing it in the dark the very first time with an exposed film that is precious to you, is probably not a great idea.

Even if you buy a super cheap roll of film of any length 12 exposures, 24 exposures or 36 exposures then just pull the film out of the cassette and practice loading onto the reel until you can do it with your eyes closed.

Good luck and do not hesitate to ask questions, no matter how silly they seem.

Steven Lee · Mar 3, 2023

I never had problems using stainless, Paterson or JOBO. An average human has the necessary mental and motor skills to effectively operate all of them. But JOBO is the most versatile and scalable system. You can do hand inversions and several types of machine processing with them. Steel and Patersons have no upgrade path.

MattKing · Mar 3, 2023

Steven Lee said:
I never had problems using stainless, Paterson or JOBO. An average human has the necessary mental and motor skills to effectively operate all of them. But JOBO is the most versatile and scalable system. You can do hand inversions and several types of machine processing with them. Steel and Patersons have no upgrade path.

I use the Paterson Super System 4 tanks - the current version for the last 1/3 of a century or so - with a rotary agitator.
I prefer the AP/Samigon/Arista Premiere reels in them - those reels are easier to load 120 in.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 3, 2023

Lumipan said:
Hi, am I better off with a new Jobo 1510, a used Peterson system 4 or a Kalimar (old, but looks in mint condition) stainless steel with a plastic lid? Pricewise they are all in 30-40€ range, stainless being the least expensive. My friend said he'll borrow a plastic one to me, but he can't find it as he moved recently, therefore I'm leaning towards stainless as he'll find it eventually...

Can't decide as I've never used one. The film is waiting in the fridge and the other one has 15 more shots to go. I read about stand developing, I'm interested in trying that too, probably I need a bit bigger tank as Rodinal says 5ml minimum so it should be 500ml at least

Thanks

Consider a daylighting like a Lab box. It's more expensive, but it will allow you to load and process the film and daylight; no dark room is required at all.

Steven Lee · Mar 4, 2023

MattKing said:
I use the Paterson Super System 4 tanks - the current version for the last 1/3 of a century or so - with a rotary agitator.
I prefer the AP/Samigon/Arista Premiere reels in them - those reels are easier to load 120 in.

Meh... the X is easier to load argument is to be ignored, as it equals to I had more practice with X. I used to think that JOBO reels are a nightmare to load, and now I can probably beat you and your AP/Samigan/Arista in film loading speed contest... 50% of the time

mshchem · Mar 4, 2023

Paterson would be a good economical choice. I've used every different tank. I have a Jobo processor and are extremely happy with the 1500 series tanks. Even without a processor a 1520 tank allows you to develop 2 35mm or 2 120 in the same small compact tank.

mshchem · Mar 4, 2023

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1339682-REG/jobo_1500m_starter_film_developing_kit.html

snusmumriken · Mar 4, 2023

I have used Paterson System 4 since their introduction in the late 1960s. I still have my first one, later supplemented with a Super System 4 bought second-hand. Both have been completely satisfactory. Their really big advantage compared with steel tanks is the speed of filling and emptying. I find the spirals really easy to use too.

MattKing · Mar 4, 2023

Steven Lee said:
Meh... the X is easier to load argument is to be ignored, as it equals to I had more practice with X. I used to think that JOBO reels are a nightmare to load, and now I can probably beat you and your AP/Samigan/Arista in film loading speed contest... 50% of the time

I only have one fully dexterous hand. The AP/Samigon/Arista Premium reels (with the wider feed channel) are easier to load 120 film on, which is a real advantage if one lacks full dexterity in both hands.
I bet I can load reels faster than you would be able to if your circumstances were similar to mine - sort of if one of your hands had limited range of motion and was in a bulky oven mitt .
I'm fastest loading 35mm film on to steel reels. I can't make the 120 steel reels - even the Hewes reels - work for me.
I develop both types of film - sometimes at the same time. So I mostly use the Paterson tanks with the AP reels.
Perhaps you should refrain from saying that advice should be ignored if you don't have knowledge about the circumstances of either the person giving the advice, or the person receiving it.

Philippe-Georges · Mar 4, 2023

If you are thinking of evolving towards larger film formats, like 4"x5" or large volumes of film to develop (two 120 rolls on one reel), then the JOBO 2500 series is a good investment as JOBO has large reels, a good sheet film reel system (which I have), fits into their vast array of rotary machines, and accessories are easy to find used.
But these tanks require quite a volume of chemicals to fill, and are rather costly new.

In all honesty, I have to admit not to like the Paterson tanks, but that's personal and not a criticism of any kind...
Paterson is easy to find, new or used, is a straight forward system in use and affordable.

Old school as I am, I use some (old-) stainless steel tanks of different volumes and brands, like Kindermann, LPL and Nikor, and as these have the same dimensions they all fit into each other, are straight forward and need less chemicals to fill, but aren't easy to find used, let alone new.

Consider your perspectives and possibilities, and decide if you need a straight forward— or a expanded system to grow into...

RalphLambrecht · Mar 4, 2023

MattKing said:
I only have one fully dexterous hand. The AP/Samigon/Arista Premium reels (with the wider feed channel) are easier to load 120 film on, which is a real advantage if one lacks full dexterity in both hands.
I bet I can load reels faster than you would be able to if your circumstances were similar to mine - sort of if one of your hands had limited range of motion and was in a bulky oven mitt .
I'm fastest loading 35mm film on to steel reels. I can't make the 120 steel reels - even the Hewes reels - work for me.
I develop both types of film - sometimes at the same time. So I mostly use the Paterson tanks with the AP reels.
Perhaps you should refrain from saying that advice should be ignored if you don't have knowledge about the circumstances of either the person giving the advice, or the person receiving it.

Matt, I'm right-handed only, since my stroke, and this subject is extremely important to me. Is there any chance you can do a YouTube video on this?

BobUK · Mar 4, 2023

RalphLambrecht said:
Consider a daylighting like a Lab box. It's more expensive, but it will allow you to load and process the film and daylight; no dark room is required at all.

Some film processes require the film to be flashed with white light during the processing.
Can this be done with a Lab Box ?

Bob.

koraks · Mar 4, 2023

snusmumriken said:
I have used Paterson System 4 since their introduction in the late 1960s.

I still use my dad's, who got his in the same period. I also use the Jobo 15xx series especially for color, but lately I've gone 'back' to the Paterson system for B&W 135 and 120. I wouldn't say it's necessarily a better system than the Jobo tanks, but I somehow prefer how the Paterson handles. Of course that's within the confines of manual development.

Lumipan · Mar 4, 2023

Thanks everyone, I just talked about this with an another friend and he told me that his father had full equipment for developing film and images.
He wants me to take everything, I'm not sure if I'd be overwhelmed, but I just might take it. Just need to see how big the whole lot is, I have this storage room with a desk in the building but it has a moisture problem, so it's OK for keeping bikes and tools, but not sure about the enlarger.

Maybe I could keep the enlarger in a sealed container with silica gel inside and put it out when I want to use it. It might be a good darkroom as it has no windows at all... I feel I'll get to the point where I want to develop images sooner or later.

Dustin McAmera · Mar 4, 2023

I made a tiny darkroom in my basement (it has a separate coal-cellar, about the size of a toilet cubicle), but had to give it up because it became damp, and corrosion started to appear on anything metal, let alone electrical.

Lumipan · Mar 4, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
I made a tiny darkroom in my basement (it has a separate coal-cellar, about the size of a toilet cubicle), but had to give it up because it became damp, and corrosion started to appear on anything metal, let alone electrical.

Same thing would happen here if I'd keep it in my storage room/basement on the open...

snusmumriken · Mar 4, 2023

For a long time, I had only a pop-up darkroom in the bathroom. The wet bench was a piece of kitchen surface that covered 3/4 of the bath (leaving access to the taps). The dry bench was the size of the enlarger baseboard and was permanently fixed in a corner, but the enlarger could have stood on the floor. Prints were washed in the bath, using a home-made siphon tube. Window blackout improvised with plywood and velvet edges. All the gear was packed away in cardboard boxes in a dry room between sessions. Not ideal, but all the gear survived until I could build a darkroom many years later. More to the point, so have the prints I made at that time.

Lumipan · Mar 4, 2023

snusmumriken said:
For a long time, I had only a pop-up darkroom in the bathroom. The wet bench was a piece of kitchen surface that covered 3/4 of the bath (leaving access to the taps). The dry bench was the size of the enlarger baseboard and was permanently fixed in a corner, but the enlarger could have stood on the floor. Prints were washed in the bath, using a home-made siphon tube. Window blackout improvised with plywood and velvet edges. All the gear was packed away in cardboard boxes in a dry room between sessions. Not ideal, but all the gear survived until I could build a darkroom many years later. More to the point, so have the prints I made at that time.

I think I'll take the stuff and start with enlarging in a few months, maybe here or maybe install everything in our island house and do it during the summer...
Do you need a sink and tap in the darkroom? Or it is possible to do without it?

snusmumriken · Mar 4, 2023

Lumipan said:
Do you need a sink and tap in the darkroom? Or it is possible to do without it?

No, you could carry in a bucket or two of water at working temperature to mix the chemicals, and to put the prints into water after fixing. You would need more water to complete washing, which is why a bath is handy. If you use resin-coated paper, wash times are quite short.

ags2mikon · Mar 4, 2023

54 years ago this summer I bought my first developing tank and reels, a Simon Omega stainless tank and reels. The man that owned the Studio and camera store (remember those?) told me it would last a lifetime if I took care of it. I used it yesterday. Since then I have purchased Jobo 1500 and 2500 tanks, reels and rotary processors and inherited Paterson tanks and reels and a number of other types like the Kodak apron type. (Those were crap!) There were others too like B&J (broken junk) and FR. Guess what? They all develop film. I use the stainless systems for my black and white and the Jobo for color. The Patersons ended up in the motor home darkroom because they don't rattle while I drive. So it is your personal choice.

Lumipan · Mar 4, 2023

Great, thanks for the info everyone. It seems I'll have a photo lab soon...

It started with a simple tank and escalated pretty quickly...

MattKing · Mar 4, 2023

RalphLambrecht said:
Matt, I'm right-handed only, since my stroke, and this subject is extremely important to me. Is there any chance you can do a YouTube video on this?

@RalphLambrecht
I'm video adverse!
But I'll see what I can do.
I may have more, or I may have less functionality in my "weak" hand than you do, so what works for me may not be great for others.
For instance, I can hold/brace one side of a reel in my stationary "weak" hand and do everything else with the other hand.
I can also use my "weak" hand to hold the reel against my chest, and do everything else with the other hand.

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