Choosing a (paper) developer

[Sanjay Sen]

Why is mixing Dektol a pain? Do you mix every time you go to the rental DR? I mix a gallon at a time, and store the stock solutions in one pint sealed bottles. I then mix whatever dilution from there, and save those as needed(unless they are spent) My Dektol working solutions last longer than what Kodak publishes, also, you can replenish with a little stock, just like D-76 w/replenisher. Dektol is very versitile, adjust the working strength as needed for a specific project. I even use it for film.

Rick

I was referring to mixing from powder in general, Dektol, D-76, etc. I much prefer to mix from liquid - dilute from the bottle and use, versus making and storing a stock solution. The "pain", I guess, is a relative term.

The rental DR is a recent thing, after I moved to NYC and using the bathroom is not feasible. The rental DR has a house developer (probably Sprint), but I would like to use one of my own preference. In the past, I did like you suggested, but I always ended up having to throw out the stock because I was not printing enough, or frequently enough. I understand that Dektol is quite versatile and lasts a long time, but I just followed Kodak's recommendations. Since I am fairly new to darkroom work, I thought it best to eliminate as many chances for error as possible.

 

[MattKing]

One of the good things about paper developers is that you can test them without wasting more than a test strip worth of paper.

Just mix up a fresh batch, and then do a couple of test prints of a normal negative until you are in the ballpark for correct exposure. Then, expose a further test strip for that time and put it into the developer. As soon as the strip goes in, begin timing. When the important mid-tones begin to emerge, record the time.

That recorded time is a measure of the effectiveness of your developer. As the developer ages or is used up, it will take longer for the mid-tones to emerge. A good rule of thumb is that if the time for mid-tones to emerge increases by 50%, the developer should be discarded.

By the way, the time for mid-tones to emerge can also serve to gauge how long you should develop for. In a process called factorial development, you can standardize your development at 6x the time for mid-tones to emerge, and as a result end up with more consistent results.

Matt

 

[jeroldharter]

I tried liquid paper developers before, primarily Edwal Ultra Black which was a nice developer but the shelf life was not so great after the bottle was opened. I wanted to use a liquid developer for simplicity, but it only introduced more variables because of shelf life and costs more.

So I tried powder paper developer and decided on Zone VI from Calumet. It makes a nice black, mixes pretty easily, and has a good shelf life. You get a slight discount for buying several packs at a time. I was never that enthused about mixing my own, because you have to source and stock each component. I prefer the ease of a pre-mixed developer that is readily available.

 

[Anscojohn]

Many years ago I settled on Ansco 103 (not a typo) because I like cold tones and it is listed as a cold-tone developer. I halve the amount of potassium bromide and replace it with some benzotriazole. Works for me.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ansco 103 is very similar to Dektol, but with less bromide, so halving the Bromide and using Benzotriazole will definitely help. Dektol itself is not a Cold tone developer.

Ian

 

[Antonio Banfi]

Many years ago I settled on Ansco 103 (not a typo) because I like cold tones and it is listed as a cold-tone developer. I halve the amount of potassium bromide and replace it with some benzotriazole. Works for me.

Hello John,
what about Ansco 103 shelf life/tray life? (I mean your variant with 6cc benzo and half KBr)
Thanks!
Antonio

 

[Ian Grant]

The tray & shelf life will be no different to any other similar MQ developer like Dektol/D72 as the bromide/Benzotriazole isn't particularly relevant to it's keeping properties.

There's two versions of AN 103 which was originally a Plate/Film/Universal developer, Agfa Ansco dropped the level of Sulphite and it became just a paper developer.

Ian

 

[Antonio Banfi]

Thank you Ian, then according to your experience what's the stock/working solution life of mq devs. kept in well sealed brown glass bottles?
Thanks
Antonio

 

[Sanjay Sen]

Ansco 103 is very similar to Dektol, but with less bromide, so halving the Bromide and using Benzotriazole will definitely help. Dektol itself is not a Cold tone developer.

Ian

Hi Ian,

I am curious about your statement above: I was reading Henry Horenstein's Beyond Basic Photography: A Technical Manual and he says in it that Kodak Dektol is a "cold-tone packaged developer". This edition is from 1977, so I was wondering if something has changed since then, or if I am missing something in your statement.

Also, I just checked KODAK Publication No. E103CP and it states that Dektol "Produces neutral or cold tones with cold-tone papers and warm tones with warm-tone papers".


Regards.

 

[fschifano]

Hi Ian,

I am curious about your statement above: I was reading Henry Horenstein's Beyond Basic Photography: A Technical Manual and he says in it that Kodak Dektol is a "cold-tone packaged developer". This edition is from 1977, so I was wondering if something has changed since then, or if I am missing something in your statement.

Also, I just checked KODAK Publication No. E103CP and it states that Dektol "Produces neutral or cold tones with cold-tone papers and warm tones with warm-tone papers".


Regards.

I don't think Kodak has substantially changed the Dektol formula for many, many years. As far as I can see, it behaves the same now as it did when I first used it over 40 years ago. What has changed are the papers we use in it. I wouldn't call it either a cold or warm toned developer. It is very much a middle of the road product, and produces neutral tones - not icy cold or warmish brown. Use a warm tone paper and you'll get warm tones. Use a cold tone paper and you'll get that too. What it won't do is enhance the warmth of a warm toned paper, nor will it enhance the icy blue-black of a really cold toned paper.

 

[Anscojohn]

Hello John,
what about Ansco 103 shelf life/tray life? (I mean your variant with 6cc benzo and half KBr)
Thanks!
Antonio

*************
My 103 seems to last "forever" in the gallon jug. I mix with boiled and filtered condensate from my central air conditioner and store in a very heavy red plastic gasoline container.

As Ian says, it last no differently than Dektol. I have been using my modifed Ansco 103 (one zero three) for many years now. I like it.

One of these days, I intend to try some Ansco 130 (one three zero).

 

[Photo Engineer]

I hate to interject anything here, due to my vested interest in paper developers, but there is a paper developer that has about 2x more capacity or tray life than Dektol. All developers are not created equal. See the test photos that I have posted here about a year ago.

PE

 

[nworth]

The first question to ask is whether you are working with warm tone or cold tone paper. Any paper developer will work with either, but developers are usually formulated to enance the paper's warm tone or cold tone characteristics. The next question is whether you will mix your own or if you are restricted to purchased products. Mixing your own is usually cheaper and is often more convenient. It also allows you a huge choice in formulas. Purchasing assures consistency. There are a lot of packaged developers out there, but you may have to hunt to find what you want. Two excellent mail-order sources are Freestyle and Photographers' Formulary. Then comes the hard part - choosing the developer. It helps to stick with a couple of standards for most of your work, experimenting when you have a special situation or feel adventurous. Each developer seems to impart its own subtle characteristics to the print. These also vary a bit with the paper. The well known standards like Dektol (D-72) (cold tone), Selectol (D-52) (warm tone) or Ansco 130 (neutral tone, long life) (homebrew, but packaged equivalents available) are usually safe bets, but other developers may be more to your liking with your paper. For instance, I usually prefer Defender 54-D for cold tone prints.

 

[Ian Grant]

Hi Ian,

I am curious about your statement above: I was reading Henry Horenstein's Beyond Basic Photography: A Technical Manual and he says in it that Kodak Dektol is a "cold-tone packaged developer". This edition is from 1977, so I was wondering if something has changed since then, or if I am missing something in your statement.

Also, I just checked KODAK Publication No. E103CP and it states that Dektol "Produces neutral or cold tones with cold-tone papers and warm tones with warm-tone papers".

Regards.

Your last paragraph says it all, cold tones with a cold tone paper, warm tones with a warm-tone paper

Dektol/D72 was released as a Plate & Film developer, it's only in more recent years it's been sold as a paper developer. The formula hasn't changed, except for the Liqibid Dektol/Polymax which is a different product.

D158 was Kodak's Cold Tone "Velox" developer and was sold as a pre-packed powder developer, the critical difference compared to D72 is the Potassium Bromide is only 0.9g/l instead of 1.9g/l

The amount of Bromide in a print developer is extremely critical so the same formula with 0.9g could give Cold tone, 1.9g Neutral tones and 4g Warm tones. This is also reflected in the commercial developers once sold by Agfa & Ilford.

By the 70's Kodak may have dropped the Cold tone developer, so marketed Dektol as it's replacement, But Dektol despite what may be written elsewhere is not a Cold tone developer.

Ian

 

[Sanjay Sen]

I have printed with only two (FB) papers so far, Ilford MGWT (with Ilford WT developer) and Slavich Bromportrait (with Dektol). The Bromportrait is a warm-tone paper, and looking at the prints I notice what you mentioned above. I think I'll get some cold-tone paper next, print the same negatives on this paper and develop with Dektol to see the difference.

Thanks, all, for your comments.

 

[2F/2F]

Ilford PQ Universal and Multigrade for me. They are very convenient to use and seem to work for quite a long time.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Despite comments to the contrary, I have to say that I have found that Dektol gives neutral to cold toned images.

OTOH, and to moderate this, I must add that the paper emulsion itself governs the tone of the image to some extent, but less than many people think. In fact, many warm toned papers are merely on a tinted support that lends the warm tone to the image, kind of like bathing a print in coffee or tea to give it an overall tone. This is not like sepia tone though as the tone reaches into the dmin area and can be measured with an instrument.

The image toning from warm tone paper or developer merely "tilts" the absorption of the silver towards yellow brown, whereas the neutral to cold tone tilts the absorption towards blue black. Neither change is large. The data is shown in many older photo books and is often exaggerated by modern workers (both from development and emulsion changes). IMHO, sepia or other warm toning processes give far better results with better control. It is extremely difficult to get strong shifts either way with a developer or emulsion formula.

Of course, exceptions in emulsion formulas abound, but they use chemicals that are now forbidden including Cadmium, Mercury and Lead. Even so, the results were weaker than you might imagine and were often enhanced by a tint in the support.

This tint in the support has been ignored too often in these types of thread.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

Ron, I've never used a Warm-tone paper on a noticeable Tinted base so I can't comment about that approach, although obviously I've seen prints made on them. I wouldn't use the older Ilford Warm-tone paper because I didn't like it's sickly off white base, the current version is quite different still a very warm-toned paper but a nice clean white base.

The late Peter Goldfield used to do a very interesting demonstration of Colour shift with warm-tone papers where he'd expose a sheet of paper as a large test strip then cut the paper into small squares. He used Record Rapid and then he'd develop in a warm-tone developer Neutol WA, he'd take out squares off different densities at maybe 30 secs.45 secs, 60 secs etc through to 3 or 4 mins then when fixed and rinsed sort them by density. The colour shifts were very striking.

The old Warm tone papers with Cadmium, like Record Rapid at that time were capable of very strong colour shifts just by development, and with the right developer could produce very strong reddish brown tones that were just not possible to archive with toners. In Europe all the manufacturers (inc Ilford, Agfa. Kodak) once offered papers & developers capable of these strong shifts.

The data is shown in many older photo books and is often exaggerated by modern workers (both from development and emulsion changes).

At one time I'd have agreed with you, I didn't believe it until I finally tried it for myself in the mid 1980's with Record Rapid and Portriga.

Unfortunately the emulsions changed soon after and the new Agfa papers with no Cadmium don't exhibit the same extreme colour shift as easily (I still have some left).

But there's no disputing that some modern papers can still be made to shift colour very significantly, it's one of the properties exploited in Lith printing

This tint in the support has been ignored too often in these types of thread.
PE

I've ignored a tinted base because I always tried to avoided them where possible.

Ian

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ian;

You have probably used a tinted base far more often than you suspect! Without a spectrophotometer, it is almost impossible to verify. Many Kodak papers and those from other manufacturers contained some tint or another in the form of a pigment in the baryta or titanox.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

Yes, I started by saying "I've never used a Warm-tone paper on a noticeable Tinted base" but yes Agfa RR had a very slight tint, but barely noticeable.

What I meant was that it's not relevant to what happens with a paper's image colour & tone in different developers etc as it would remain constant

I'll try and do some fresh tests (& post them online) with current & very recent papers to illustrate the amount of shift possible later in the month when I', back in the UK. I have some papers like Ilford Warmtone, MCC, Foma to play with and I can beg some colder paper from a couple of local photographers,

Ian

 

[Photo Engineer]

I'm sorry, but it does affect us subjectively. A warm toned base makes a neutral tone appear more warm and a warm tone base makes a slightly warm tone emulsion appear very warm toned. Some warm toned papers were only weakly so, but were coated on a warm tone paper support which enhanced the warm tone appearance of the image.

In the Kodak paper samples book, you can see this by flipping through the various supports.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

I'm sorry, but it does affect us subjectively. A warm toned base makes a neutral tone appear more warm and a warm tone base makes a slightly warm tone emulsion appear very warm toned. Some warm toned papers were only weakly so, but were coated on a warm tone paper support which enhanced the warm tone appearance of the image.

In the Kodak paper samples book, you can see this by flipping through the various supports.

PE

I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm saying how image colour & tones of a given paper can be changed by choice of developer and then variables like dilution, temperature, development time & exposure.

Back in the UK I have a US Kodak Databook (from an APUG subscriber) with the paper swatch samples in it so I appreciate which papers you're talking about, and I have far older books with Wellington & other paper samples tipped in, and there's been no paper like them for decades.

Ian

 

[Photo Engineer]

And I'm saying that developers do change the tone, but emulsions and paper support change it more. Thats about it.

PE

 

[Chris Lange]

I use Dektol and Ilford PQ pretty much interchangeably at home, but at school it's all Sprint chemicals for everything.

 

[dancqu]

From Scratch

I like Ansco 130 (I mix it from scratch) ...

The OP may wish to consider Home Brewing. In which
case there are good developers which use few ingredients
and are easy to mix and those with more ingredients and
more difficult to mix.

Ansco 120 is of the easier type while Ilford's ID-62
is a more difficult type. If properly used both will
make good film and paper developers. Dan