Choosing a Nikon F3 Focusing Screen for Telephoto Lenses

[waffles]

I recently bought a DC-Nikkor AF 135mm 1:2 D to use with my Nikon N80 and Nikon F3. The "Type K" default focusing screen that came with the F3 isn't compatible with lenses this long, so I need to buy a another screen. I'm also thinking about buying a Nikkor AF-S 300mm 1:4 D in the near future, so I'd like to get a focusing screen that can handle that as well.

Over the course of its service life, Nikon made two specific focusing screens for F3 when used with telephoto lenses: a "Type B" and a "Type U." The user manual for the F3 specifically mentions the "Type B" screen but *not* the "Type U" (I guess it hadn't been invented yet?)

Does anyone here know what the differences are between the two screens? And would anyone recommend one over the other for lenses from 135-300mm and maximum apertures between f/2.0 - f/4.0? Thanks!

 

[waffles]

Also, I see that some focusing screens are labeled with a "red dot" on the side, while others aren't. The red dot screens appear to be newer/better, but I can't find any information on what is the actual difference between versions. Is this kind of like the different between the Hasselblad Standard & Acute-Matte focusing screens? Or is more like the difference between the Acute-Matte and the Acute-Matte D focusing screens? Thanks again for all your help.

 

[cramej]

Type U does not have a split image, just microprism. I switched to the K3 screen on my FA and it works well with all lenses, but much better than the original screen with slower lenses. 135mm f2 should be no problem with any screen - it's not that long or slow.

 

[Kino]

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf3ver2/screens/index.htm

Somewhere there is a chart with suggested screen types and corresponding exposure compensation, but I can't locate it quickly...

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

INCORRECT: Nikon F3 Screen U does not have a micro prism dot, only a smooth matte surface, with an almost imperceptible extra fine area in the center. I've used the U screen often with many long Nikkors and it is my preferred screen for use with my 400mm f/2.8 especially when used with converters. With the TC-301 on the 400mm the U screen with NO micro prism spot remains bright (ish) while the F3's standard K screen blacks out the center, as does the J screen (which is my standard screen for both F4 and F3 unless I plan on shooting the 400mm exclusively). I've also effectively used the H series screens for low light long lens work, of course matching the H Series to the lens.

As for the 135mm DC, the K screen should work as normal; I use K, J, U and H2 with my Nikkor 135mm f/2 Ai-s without any issue or blackout.

The Red Dot screens were an improvement in the etching of the matte surface being made with the help of lasers, a technology I think introduced by Minolta and used in Hasselblad screens. The introduction of the Nikon F4 included the same screens and the Red Dot (as well as a black dot on the original Nikon packaging box) indicates the newer versions for the F3.

I have compared K, B, J and U screens for F3 with Red dot and without and the Red Dot versions are *slightly* "brighter" but have a touch less contrast (snap to some people) and the fineness of the matte surface is the most noticeable. The non red dot is like 120 grit sand paper and the red dot versions are like 320 grit. Side by side comparisons using two F3 bodies shows these differences, in practice the non red dot screens are perfectly useable. I did prefer the R screen non red dot for using the 40mm with the TC-301 and the TC-14b (and E) stacked together, while the center rangefinder spot did black out the coarser grain of the matte surface non red dot made the focus much more apparent. I've never found a red dot R screen.

I will repeat this for anyone who hasn't seen the many posts I've made on the topic; don't install an F4 screen into an F3 they may fit but they are not interchangeable and you will introduce focussing errors. If you want a brighter screen in an F3 get a red dot version it will be the same as an F4 screen but in correct registration. However, F3 screens can be used correctly on an F2 without any problem, you'll just need to install into the F2 with the screen lip reversed. In this case the F2 gets a very much noticeable improvement but you will need to make a slight exposure compensation since the meter reads from the screen. I suppose there are a few people still shooting F2's using the camera meter, the only F2 meter I trust is one that Sover Wong did a CLA many years ago.

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

Type B and type U focusing screens for the F3 both have a central spot with fine matte glass and no fresnel lens. The drawing in the green chart above is incorrect and adds confusion to this confusing topic. Better refer to the chart below, which indoubtably refers to the F3. As a side note, Nikon pretends that the same letters belonged to the same type of focusing screens for the F series, but it is rarely so. It is also amusing how each and every focusing glass is described on their literature as the best of the universe, while in my experience changing the standard focusing glass very rearely solves any issue (more on this later).

The difference between type B and type U is that the fresnel lens in type U has a different focal lenght and is more aimed at long focus lenses, which deliver light rays that are almost normal to the film plane.

Since both types G and types H were described as the best things in the known universe when it comes to long focus lenses, after a loooooong search I could put my hands on a G3 and an H3 in order to match a 400mm, only to find out that they turn dark at around f:4 and are useless at f:5,6 just as the standard focusing glass is. Which is basically exactly when you need a focusing aid, as even Mister Magoo would focus all right with an f:1,4 lens under a bright sun. In any case, prints at hand and just for the record, for one reason or another the H3 screen seems to help better (possibly because you don't need to focus and then re-frame each time).

So, in the end, if you're perfect sighted or if you could find an eyepiece correction lens that perfectly matches your sight, the good old plain ground glass of types B and/or U may still be (moan) the best way to go when it comes to long/dark lenses.

 

[narsuitus]

Over the years, I have used a variety of view screens for Nikon F, F2, F3, and F4 SLRs. For telephoto work, I found the B, D, and E view screens the most useful. I have never owned or used the type U screen.


Nikon F2 screens by Narsuitus, on Flickr

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Thanks for adding that Nikon factory screen information its good to post original material. As I noted above and you can read in the description the R screen is recommended for lenses with maximum f/stops of 3.5-5.6 which is the only screen I know of that indicates usage based on f/stop and not based only on Focal Length. For longer and slower Nikkor lenses I found the R screen slightly easier to acquire the focus but the U for more precise use. The R definitely has a more coarser pattern to fine matte surface whereas the U is like the B where it seems very fine especially the Red Dot versions.

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

That's interesting, but what happens in reality when a f:5,6 lens is used in conjunction with the type R screen? Does the split image get dark as usual?

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Surprisingly enough with the R screen (non Red dot) the center split image stays useful even when I stack the TC-14 and TC-301 on to my 400mm 2.8 making it an f/8. Its a bit dark but more useable than a K screen by a country mile (a lot).

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

Thank you, very interesting. I wonder why G3 and H3 are not just as effective, as optically they're just the same thing. I might give the R a try, although split image is not of great help when it comes to wildlife photography.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Well as I understand it the micro prism as well as the split range finder work on the same principle and that the angle, position and distance of the viewer's actual eyeball has a huge effect on the effectiveness (with a given proper matched lens). For my own eyeballs with glasses on both the F3 and F4 those screens seemed very sensitive to eye placement.

For my experience of news/sports photography with long lenses in very low light if I had the time to prep for a very dark field or gym I would switch one body to a H series depending on the longest lens I planned on using, usually an H3 which worked ok with a 300 2.8 but very well on a 400 2.8, the H2 was opposite just ok with the 400 and excellent with the 300 (as well as the 180 and 135 which I used often for volleyball and basketball). For how I perceived the usefulness of these screens I found them extremely useful in a narrow usage which was lower light (or the very edges of what was even a shootable light level) and fast action together.

With the same lenses during a day game/general shooting I found those H series to be too bright and very hard to see with. Doable in a pinch since I would often leave that one body set up with the H and have to shoot the next day before swapping out. My daily shooting was with the B, J, and U screens which I could leave in camera and only swap out to the H for specific events/locations. One extra nice part of shooting the J and B/U screen combination is that it is easy and instant to know which camera you are shooting with while looking thru the finder. This is super useful when you rotate 3-4 cameras that are set up identical but for film types (F-3HP w/MD-4s and F4s).

Back to the OP topic; If you want to try low light shooting with that very capable 135mm DC yes by all means the U is useful but I don't think you'll see much difference from the K or B screen in terms of brightness; that lens is an f/2 and fairly 'short' and where you would probably perceive the screen brightness would be for lenses in the 2-300mm + and f/2.8-4 range. For really low light I would suggest locating an H2 and see if that helps with viewing and focussing.

 

[nicholasnicholas]

Does anyone have experience with the Type D screen?
I have one installed in the F3 (came with the camera) and it's quite vignetted and a bit dark. Is that normal?

I've tried with the 75-150 3.5 lens, 55-80 3.5, 50 f1.8 & all somewhat the same in visibility and clarity. I was under the impression the screen of the F3 was one of the best/brightest and this is somewhat underwhelming.

I've heard Type K, Type E can be great for most photography types and brightness.

Is it also possible the HP finder is what is causing a vignette?

Attached a photo of the current view with the Type D

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Hmm the D screen is mostly for close-up work, and as I understand it, the vignetting you see is related to the Fresnel lens being optimized more for macro lenses that are slow. When you see that type of vignetting it is an indication that the screen is less optimal for the lens. For those lenses you listed a more general screen is more appropriate.
Since I wrote my responses I've used the U and H3-4 with a Nikkor 600mm f/5.6 and 500mm f/4 with both the TC-14 and the TC-301 and the improvement over a B or K screen is very apparent. The U screen in particular vastly improves the 600+TC-301 (1200mm f/11).

 

[reddesert]

A general comment about screens: Split image and microprisms work on the same principle: small prisms on the focusing screen redirect the light beam at an angle, so that the light in each prism area is coming from different regions of the lens, each of which is off the central axis. When the lens is out of focus, the aerial image is displaced forward or back of the screen, so the different angles cause the images to be offset.

The issue is that the light is going through the lens at an angle, and if the angle is too large or the aperture is too small, the light will be blocked and the prism will black out. Passing the angled beams of light through the aperture is affected by the diameter of the aperture (f-stop), and also by the location of the image of the aperture, the exit pupil, which can be different from the physical location of the aperture. I think differences in exit pupil location and hence the angle of the beams hitting the focusing screen are one reason you start to need different screens for long telephoto lenses.

Finally, the OP asked about screens other than the standard Type K for a 135mm lens. I've never really noticed a need for unusual screens for a 135mm lens, or up to say 200mm. I think one only needs to be concerned about it for extra-long telephotos, 300mm and up, and/or using teleconverters that give the system a slow f-number.

 

[lxdude]

135mm is a moderate length, and should be well handled by the K screen. It certainly is on my F3. I don't know of any standard screen on any camera, including non-interchangeable-screen cameras, that had a problem with 135mm. You should have no trouble up to 200mm, and even more. K screens work well with zooms of just moderate aperture like 70-210/4 and 80-200/4.5
At 300mm there are better choices, but I've used 300/5.6 lenses on non-interchangeable screen cameras without much issue.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

My first F3HP came with a red dot U screen along with a 135mm f/2 Ai-s from another news photographer and it did help me when shooting basketball and volleyball in dimly lit High School gyms. I never really paid it too much attention until I got a Nikkor 24mm f/2.8 and with the U screen it was almost unusable, and thus I had to find another screen for the wide angles. The U screen was very useful and I enjoyed shooting it as a dedicated longer lens body when I got another Nikon.

 

[dynachrome]

I just took delivery of another screen for the F3. It's a new old stock red dot E screen. As a general purpose screen and especially for macro work and with slower lenses like zooms, I prefer the E. For macro work at or above1:1 I like a plain matte screen. For my Canon F-1 cameras I like the D screens. For the F-1 and F-1n cameras my favorite screen is the later L D. For the New F-1 I like the P D. I find that the grid lines of these screens are a good sharpness reference when I focus. I only wish I could get a grid type screen in one of my Nikkormats. What Nikons do I have with grid type screens? F2, F3, FE, FE2, N90S, N8008, N2020. The N2020's standard screen is fine for most purposes. It is an ancient camera by AF standards but a nice camera for manual focus use.

 

[cooltouch]

I don't keep track of the alphabet soup with the various manufacturers' focusing screens. I just look for plain matte screens for any of my cameras that take interchangeable screens. I got into this habit when I did a lot of photography with slow zooms and telephotos. After a while, using plain matte screens just became second nature and I use them regardless of the lenses I have mounted.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Yes, in general with most Nikkors a standard general type screen will be fine for most uses, it is when using super-tele's with converters or micro lenses with extension tubes that the more specialized screens will show their worth.

As it is, the focus peaking of the Z series with long tele's is another improvement.