Choosing a Durst: 138S or L1000?

[fdonadio]

I've found one of each, both in acceptable state and almost the same price.

Which one would you choose?

 

[Hilo]

If your aim is to print small-ish, like up to 30X40cm, then the L1000 is good to begin with. But you have to be aware of some things:

- using normal bulbs of 150watt will give you problems in getting even illumination. Instead the L1000 uses the very hard to find much larger bulbs of 200 or 250 or 300 watt. I would have to check but their widest diameter is about 11cm and they are about 17 to 18 cm long. Brands are Durst and Atlas. If the one you have your eye on has 2 or 3 spares of these larger bulbs, you have solved half of the situation. It took me a couple of years to put together a good number of spares. Expect to pay serious money for them.

- these bulbs get much hotter than normal enlarging bulbs and Durst recommends to install a fan when using higher than 200 watt bulbs. If the enlarger comes with the fan, it would be very good but they hardly ever do. I installed a fan myself into the appropriate hole on the side of the lamp head.

- Durst provided a heat glass in a black metal frame, that you install between the lamp head and the chamber closer to the negative holder. It took me a long time to find that one. To know if this enlarger has this glass you open the lamp head from above and look/feel in there towards the negative holder area. If that is open you don't have it. Generally it is not there, so if it is present it is great.

- In case you will only do small prints this heat situation is less critical. You just learn to be quick when setting up your negative!

- On the right side of the enlarger head, you either find a rectangular metal plate fixed with 2 screws, or you find the filter holder, which sits there vertically. Another plus if that one is present. If not, you will have to use a under-the-lens filter holder that you fabricate yourself using the red filter . . . meaning it is important there is a red filter and its metal rod that's screwed into the head.

- For doing larger prints Durst provided a wall mount for this enlarger. I got it and it works well. It actually turns this enlarger into a full mature enlarger with the possibility to go very large. You have to be aware it is quite a job to get the wall mount and enlarger level against the wall, and also level out the table you use underneath. But once that is achieved, it is a great enlarger.

- There are three or four condensers (I think) which you always use in a combination of two. You open up the front of the lamp head, which hinges on black tape (!) and you will find an explanation about which condensers to use with which negative format.

- A warning: if you screw off the top of the lamp head and take off the part that holds the mirror - be careful this mirror does not slip out.

- Finally, the negative holder's top glass should be Anti-Newton.

I was first attracted to the L1000 because it is a small enlarger. Before that I only had experience with Leitz enlargers, the Ic, IIc and Valoy II. Here in The Netherlands the L1000 costs about €100 - €150, but even at those prices people have a hard time to sell them. Mine I traded with a friend. It is a simple all metal enlarger, which is exactly what I like about it. Here you find this enlarger easily and if you take time you will be able to find the right parts, even if it takes buying another one just for parts. I imagine this is more difficult where you are.

I have no printing experience with the 138s, and I am not familiar with the parameters of that one (such as I describe above). I just find that a huge machine, which to me is not exactly what I like in an enlarger. However, probably the 138s is the better choice if all the stuff I mention before is problematic with the L1000. I imagine the 138s comes with most issues all ready solved.

 

[davidmasek]

I use and like the L1000. It is is not so heavy and is easy to take apart to store when not in use and that is an important factor for me. I used the condensor set up with a 150W bulb for some time and did not notice any issues with it, but that could be only me. Then I adapted an Ilford Multigrade 500 head to the enlarger and I am happy with that. I have seen the 138S but never used it. Space, parts and accessories availability should be your main concern when making the decision. It may be hard to find all the parts you need, but that depends on how common these enlargers were in your area.

 

[ruilourosa]

I have both, they are very good! one is 4x5 and easely prints 35mm, the other is 5x7 and is a pain to use for 35mm fast and practically and requires special lens boards for 50mm , immensely recessed, so much you have to find a way to change diafragm other than with your fingers...

You can change the light of both for led very easely or build a diffuser head a la Ansel Adams

looking for a durst 6x9... anyone?

 

[AgX]

...and requires special lens boards for 50mm , immensely recessed, so much you have to find a way to change diafragm other than with your fingers...

I bought a junk Rollei enlarger in pieces where the previous owner had taken the large PE swivel nut from a sink siphon, made a lengthwise cut to get it flexible and screwed in a long screw at right angle serving as operating lever. Pushed over the lens barrel the nut a made a fine device for operating the aperture. One could add a aperture scale to it.

 

[etn]

looking for a durst 6x9... anyone?

If I remember correctly I saw a Durst 805 on secondhanddarkroom.co.uk. (their website seems down at the moment).
It's a hell of an enlarger, I just love mine. You might want to give them a call.
BTW I have a few extra glass plates for the film holder (the regular glass, not the anti-newton one) if you need some.

Good luck!

 

[fdonadio]

Thank you all for the very informative messages.

I didn't check these enlargers in person, only photos on the web.

In a first glance, the red filter is missing on the L1000 and the seller doesn't say anything about extra stuff, even the holders.

The 138S includes a set of lenses, holders and a vacuum easel. It costs a little more.

Space is definitely not a problem for me, so I could get the 138S if there are advantages.

I have a Durst M805 with a color head for smaller formats. The larger fella would be used almost exclusively for 4x5 in black and white.

 

[Luis-F-S]

Without a doubt, I would get the 138S, especially if it's one of the newer ones with the removable turret. It's a commercial grade and enlarger and the other one is not regardless of what others may say. There is no comparison on the build quality between the two enlargers, see them both for yourself and it will be an easy decision. I've used the L-138 for some 20 plus years. The 5x7 enlarger will cover 4x5 more evenly than the 4x5 enlarger will. That by itself is reason for the larger one. You can download the manuals from http://www.durst-pro-usa.com/products.php

With either enlarger, make sure you use a blower, I used one on the 138 regardless of the bulb size. Durst says one is required for over 200 watts, but I used one all the time. Keeps everything much cooler regardless whether you have the Lacalo heat filter. You can use the 150 Watt, G40 bulbs (or equivalent for your country) on either enlarger which have a larger envelope for good coverage. Hopefully, it will come with an original bulb. You use a rheostat to dim the bulb slightly to increase the bulb life.

Just make sure whatever you get it's complete, with condensers, negative carriers and lens boards. You will need as a minimum the 85, 130, 200 and 240 condensers. That gets you from 35 to 4x5. Or you can try to find one of the cold light heads that take the place of one of the condensers. The glassless inserts are nice to have, but that may be pushing it. Otherwise these small items are a pain to find. You can print 135 on the 138 with either an 80 mm lens, or you can buy the Laratub-N lensboard. There are a bunch of L-138 threads on the LFF, you probably should check those out. Good luck.

 

[LarsAC]

I bought an L1200 with color head a while ago and am still satisfied with it for anything from 35mm to 4x5. I was lucky to get lots of accessories as part of the deal like various mixing boxes, negative carriers, masks etc. Having to buy these separately can quickly become costly - so check in detail what you need and what is there.

Lars

 

[ruilourosa]

I really do not understand what is a commercial grade, but having 2 L1000 one L138 and a few more from several brands i really do not see diference in quality construction that would make prefer one over another. They are both very good! L138 is a standing enlarger that takes a bit more space, L1000 you need a table or a wall to mount it (DIY).

About light eveness i think that´s not an issue with both

cheers

 

[fdonadio]

Thanks, Luis, Rui and Lars!


About the condensers, which ones would I need for 6x9 to 4x5?

About the fan: if I don't have access to an original part, could I use something like a computer fan?

 

[ruilourosa]

Beware the vibration, its easyer to use a long pipe, i never used any cooling device in L1000 but i use a 150 W lamps, one of these days they are going to be hacked to led

 

[Luis-F-S]

Did you download the manual? It's all in there.

 

[ac12]

Given that you have the space, I would get the 138, to give you the option of 5x7, if you ever want to.
But you would need to have another enlarger for smaller formats. I use a Durst M600 for 6x6 and smaller and a L-1000 for 6x6 and larger.

The problem with both enlargers is, if you are missing parts it will be difficult and expensive to get replacements.
Durst no longer makes enlargers, to your only source for parts is the used market.
Get the manual for both enlargers and make a list of parts that you need to have and check with the sellers if the parts are there, or do an inventory in person.

It will be critical to get all the condensers for the enlarger. These can be hard to find.
Condensers are matched to the lens, not the film format. Example you can use a 80mm lens for 35mm film, instead of the usual 50mm.

For both the negative carrier, or negative plates will be important.

But correct bulb for both enlargers are no longer made. But as I understand, you can use the G40 bulb for the 138, and I think the G30 bulb for the L-1000. The G bulbs are not photo bulbs, buy from people doing tests, it seems to work fine. Here is the post about replacement bulbs for the 138. You can read the entire thread, makes for interesting reading.
http://www.largeformatphotography.i...placement-Bubs&p=816464&viewfull=1#post816464
I used the results of the post to decide on the G30 bulb for my L-1000.

 

[fdonadio]

Okay... I guess I have all the info I need. Gonna download the manual tonight and give it a good read.

Thanks everyone for all the info.

Now it's time for me to go check them in person.

 

[fdonadio]

Just finished reading the manual. The 138S is a pretty straight forward enlarger. I like it a lot.

From what I understood, I would need two 240 condensers for 5x7"; one 240 and one 200 for 4x5"; and, finally, one 240 and one 130 for 65 x 90 mm. So, to work with these 3 formats, I would need two 240's, one 200 and one 130. If I let alone 5x7", I just need one of each. Also, I would need at least the 105, 150 and 210 mm lenses. Am I right?

The LAFAN connects to the enlarger head via a hose, so the blower won't cause the head to vibrate. I can make something like that easily.

I talked to the seller and he insists he got the 138S with the vacuum easel and that it's "built-in". I haven't seen any information about this accessory on the manual. Check Durst's website and they sure have information on gasket vacuum easels, but they don't seem to be the same thing this guy is offering me.

Well... I'll schedule a visit to take a look at the 138S first.

 

[Luis-F-S]

I've always used a 180 lens for both 4x5 & 5x7 although I have the other two lenses. I think I've used it with the 240/240, but you could certainly try the 240/200 and see what gives you more even illumination. You don't need a LaFan, you can buy a 70 CFM (the Lafan's output) blower at a supply house (like Grainger in the US), and connect it via a hose. Put a filter of some sort on the intake to keep dust out of the head. I have a dog grooming blower that I use that is variable speed and works great! Just leave the blower on the entire time while you're printing.

The vacuum easel was probably an aftermarket add-on, you can either use it or you can replace it with a piece of masonite/formica baseboard if you don't like it. It just screws onto the arm that holds it. It's an incredibly straightforward enlarger which is it's greatest asset. Nothing should break, and if it does you can usually fix it yourself! Make sure it has a negative carrier, those are hard to find used. Lens boards and condensers are pretty easy to locate on the 'bay. Good luck. L

 

[quine666]

I have both the L1000 and the L138. The L1000 is a great enlarger, but the L138 is even better. I would agree with the recommendation to get as many accessories as possible with it (especially negative carriers, condensers, and lens boards).

Some reasons to prefer the L138:
1) 5x7 capability: even when printing 4x5 you have room to shift the negative carrier around & print in portrait orientation.
2) More elevation.
3) Tilts on baseboard, head, and focusing stage.
4) More durable condensers: the L1000 has a fatal flaw that makes it easy to scratch the top condenser if you remove it first. Also, L138 condensers are more readily available used.
5) Three-axis bulb position (especially useful for point-light sources). The L1000 has no left-to-right control.

Some disadvantages:
1) Doing big enlargements with 35mm negatives requires a super deep lens board. But you can always use an 80mm lens for normal-size enlargements.
2) Size & weight.
3) The L138 negative carrier has delicate clips to hold the plates in place that easily break. The L1000 design is far more durable.

BTW, don't let anyone scare you away from the L138 with stories about bulbs that are no longer available. It's true that the Durst-recommended Thorn bulbs are no longer being made, but I've been using readily-available PH212 bulbs for years with no dark corners.

 

[fdonadio]

Thanks, @quine666!

I am sure both are great enlargers, but... I am more inclined to get the 138S.

Just have to sort out some details with the seller.

 

[Luis-F-S]

Great, post some photos when you get it. Does it have the removable turret? L

 

[fdonadio]

Great, post some photos when you get it. Does it have the removable turret? L

I don't know. I feel the guy never really used it "properly". If I was selling something, I would give more information than "complete enlarger, in working condition, includes vacuum easel and a set of lenses".

I will have to go there and check everything myself and make an offer (if it's a good deal). I'm gonna print and take some pages of the manual to make sure I don't miss a thing.

Wish me luck!

 

[Luis-F-S]

It doesn't matter how he used it, only the shape it's in. A lot of these guys don't have a lot of experience with the equipment. It's up to you as the buyer to make sure it's complete. Take the manual with you when you go see it! Everything you need is in the manual. There's not much to break on that enlarger, it's built like a tank! Just make sure there's no rust, esp. on the chromed parts.

 

[Ron789]

Just make sure there's no rust, esp. on the chromed parts.

I got me 2 L138's last year, both quite rusty and dirty. I took the best parts of the 2 and combined those to build one good enlarger. I cleaned everything up and found that the rust was really only on the surface and easy to remove. Steel wool and metal polish did miracles! My L138 is now shining again as if brand new and it functions perfectly well.

 

[fdonadio]

I really want to avoid rust as much as I can, but if it's superficial, it can be eliminated.

Getting someone to redo the chrome is not difficult around here, especially on small parts.

I wouldn't mind having to overhaul an enlarger if I got it for free.

 

[bunip]

I got one last year in rusty conditions, one early model, and bought here and there all accessory needed for formats up to 5x7. Not cheap at all to get what I needed but In comparison of the M700 I used for the 35mm, 6x6 and 6x9, it's quite impressive how precise and easy enlarger is to set up with large formats. It's a stand alone enlarger but with an "L" shaped mounting bracket you can easily transform it in a wall fixed enlarger, as you fix all the column to the wall and it become really very sturdy. Yesterday I used mine to make 60x100 cm prints wall projected from 6x9 negative with 210 el nikkor, about 200cm paper-lens distance. It is easy to make a remote focus controlling bar to check the focus with the focometer on the paper while remotely focusing. If you'll need more info on this please send me a PM. In the instructions manual you'll find focal lenght by focal lenght what condenser to be used; it varies also by lense's brand and by vertical or horizontal enlarging. When I got mine it was really rusty; after 3 hours cleaning it became like new; all you see is stainless steel or layers fire varnished metal, so it's really unusual to see real rust. Often it's only dirty. You can also find online a user manual for the servicing that will explain to you clearly what you should never do with the head suspending spring. Read it carefully as that is a mechanism that can even kill you if mishandled.