Chemical Disposal When On A Septic Tank

[waynecrider]

New house has a septic tank so what do YOU do with the chemicals.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I guess I don't get the difference. Anything you don't want in your septic tank probably should not go into a public sewer system, either.

EDIT: after more reading, it may be that some darkroom chemicals can be removed by public wastewater treatments, but which septic systems cannot effectively treat.

As far as I know (which is not very much) - based on information provided by a university photography class - the used fixer and toners (selenium, etc.) need to be kept out of the waste stream. But the common commercial developers we used were OK for down the drain connected to municipal sewer system (D-76, Rodinal, Dektol, Polymax, etc.). No idea about some of the concoctions mixed up by the diy developer crowd.

If you have a university nearby - and if they have a darkroom - ask them what they do with used fixer and toners. If not, your city may or may not have some kind of hazardous waste facility.

 

[cramej]

A septic system depends on bacteria. Anything that would significantly decrease bacteria activity could lessen the effectiveness of the system. If you process a roll or two a week, it will probably be ok. In the end, the waste stream is filtered out through a gravel bed into the soil, so keep that in consideration. A lot of household cleaners are more damaging than photo chemicals but do not harm a septic system in the small quantities they are used. If the water table is high in your area of Florida, I'd probably play it safe with Xtol or similar and taking fixer to a recycler.

 

[awty]

Is it a septic tank or some sort of biocycle. Septic tanks are an old system and only take toilet water, so you would not want to have anything else go into it or it won't work.
All other waste goes separate into the transpiration trenches.
If you have some sort of bio tank where all the waste goes into a single tank (the modern method) before going into transpiration trench, you will need to separate any harmful chemicals and use water sparingly.
Really need to find out exactly what type of system you have, some can handle more water than others.
Alternatively you can collect all the used water and disperse it through the garden or lawn. Maybe connect you sink to a hose or collect into a holding tank.
If it's reasonable modern there should be some drainage plans.
You could get some professional advice from a local plumber.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Personal experience here.

I worked in a darkroom on a septic system for several years. I did quite a bit of research at the time about what to dispose of (and how much) in the septic system and what not. I don't remember all of that now, but look for an older version of Kodak publication J-300. It has info in it about septic systems. Oxygen load on the septic system in a consideration and depends on the size of your system and the amount of chemistry you are disposing. Small amounts are usually okay.

My end result was that I would dump both film and print developers and the stop baths (after mixing both together). Fixer was collected and taken to a local photo lab for silver recovery (this is by far the best way to deal with fixer; hazardous waste disposal sites actually mark it toxic and then incinerated it at high temperature... what a stupid waste).

Selenium toner gets replenished and reused; I never dump mine anywhere.

The small amounts of ferricyanide bleach I used went into the septic system as well. As far as I know, that septic system is still doing just fine years later.

Best,

Doremus

 

[runswithsizzers]

You probably want to pay more attention to official sources, like:
For University of Florida <darkroom regulations>
Duke University <photographic waste handling>

Both sources confirm what I was told by my local university photography department - fixers, intensifiers, and toners should not go down the drain. This is true whether you are on a septic system or not.

EDIT: Just found <this one> from the Maryland Department of the Environment which goes into more detail.

BTW, to answer your question, I am on a septic tank and I've been putting my B&W film developers down the drain (D-76, but switching to Xtol. Less than a liter per month for me). I save up my used fixer which a local university photography department has agreed to accept in their fixer recycling tank. I develop less than a dozen rolls in a year. I don't print in the darkroom, so no toners/inensifiers for me to deal with.

 

[mgb74]

Is it a septic tank or some sort of biocycle. Septic tanks are an old system and only take toilet water, so you would not want to have anything else go into it or it won't work. All other waste goes separate into the transpiration trenches.

I think in the US a septic system is more like what you call a biocycle. Both waste products and grey water go into a tank where solids are broken down. There may be one tank or 2. Newer systems often have an aerator. From the tank, liquids (still biologically nasty) go into a drainfield where the aerobic bacteria neutralizes the waste. The soil has to have the right porosity for this to work (for example, hard pack clay won't work).

There are 2 issues with chemicals going into the septic tank. One, they eventually leach out into the soil via the drainfield. Two, the silver (or other chemicals) harm the anaerobic bacteria in the tank that is necessary to break down solids.

Of course, in both cases, volume is a critical component (unless you tank an absolute view about introducing these into the soil).

 

[awty]

I think in the US a septic system is more like what you call a biocycle. Both waste products and grey water go into a tank where solids are broken down. There may be one tank or 2. Newer systems often have an aerator. From the tank, liquids (still biologically nasty) go into a drainfield where the aerobic bacteria neutralizes the waste. The soil has to have the right porosity for this to work (for example, hard pack clay won't work).

There are 2 issues with chemicals going into the septic tank. One, they eventually leach out into the soil via the drainfield. Two, the silver (or other chemicals) harm the anaerobic bacteria in the tank that is necessary to break down solids.

Of course, in both cases, volume is a critical component (unless you tank an absolute view about introducing these into the soil).

Ok. Our old system was a septic tank then a transpiration trench for toilets and a holding tank with a pump out or a transpiration trench for everything else (grey water). Kitchen sinks would go into a grease trap before hand.
Modern system use a single tank, like what you describe with an aerator type system. The latest use worms as well to brake down effluent, and there is composting and other variations.

As you say it is highly dependent on what system is being used and how you are going to use it. Usually they are designed around how many occupants and the land type, if you are using high volumes of water for fiber print washing this could upset the balance. Low volume water use and as long as you dont let any of the more toxic chemistry or undiluted chemistry go down the drain shouldn't have any great effect on the system.

 

[guangong]

Everything in moderation. Even washing clothes in a washing machine should be limited to one load a day in order to maintain plentiful bacteria level. Household bleach and many powerful household cleaners should never be introduced into septic tank. However, a couple rolls of film every few days is ok to put chemicals down drain. Been disposing darkroom chemicals into septic tank for years with no bad effects. But I try to dilute with plenty of water.

 

[mgb74]

Ok. Our old system was a septic tank then a transpiration trench for toilets and a holding tank with a pump out or a transpiration trench for everything else (grey water). Kitchen sinks would go into a grease trap before hand.
Modern system use a single tank, like what you describe with an aerator type system. The latest use worms as well to brake down effluent, and there is composting and other variations.

As you say it is highly dependent on what system is being used and how you are going to use it. Usually they are designed around how many occupants and the land type, if you are using high volumes of water for fiber print washing this could upset the balance. Low volume water use and as long as you dont let any of the more toxic chemistry or undiluted chemistry go down the drain shouldn't have any great effect on the system.

You raise a good point. The volume of water from extended print washing can have as much of an effect as the chemicals.

 

[removed account4]

New house has a septic tank so what do YOU do with the chemicals.

hey wayne -
i use my fixer until it is super spent ( 2x original clear time) and use a silver magnet to plate our the silver. then i take that partially de-silvered fixer ( it still has about 50 parts / million silver in there )and the water that i washed my film+prints and put it all through a trickle tank. i also have a 15 gallon roadside drum for a waste hauler. regionally/locally we have a household hazmat waste drop off ( at the "central landfill" ) a couple times a year but i have never done that.
i made a suggestion to a camera store a few years ago that people should be able to bring their photo waste back to them (like returning dead CF lights back to where one bought them) but the clerk just kind of laughed.
Good luck !
john

 

[waynecrider]

So the new house is up in GA and of course the soil is essentially clay.
I know about the fixer issue, but I’ll be printing as well, in fact quite a bit. I’ll contact the local authorities and may have to wind up with a 50 gal drum.
Looking to get out into the mountains and do some shooting. I’ll be roaming all over, GA, NC, TN & SC.

 

[Michael Firstlight]

Wayne, seems you and I are in identical situations. New house almost finished in SW NC Mountains with new, dedicated darkroom built as part of the new home (finally, one done properly). I'll also be on septic. I plan to film developing and printing as well. For film I am lucky to have a PhotoThem Sidekick with a built in silver recovery feature, but I also have the silver recovery magnet for when print in either trays or when using a CP-32 processor with an automatic replenishment unit.. I've been following this thread closely - sounds like we can dispose B&W developer and stop just fine (maybe need to double check the Ph levels), and do silver recovery, but no toner, reducers or intensifiers - all go to HazMat disposal.

Mike

 

[NedL]

I save used fixer and residual toner ( gold, platinum ) to go to the local hazardous waste disposal ( agree with Doremus, it's a waste, but there are no longer photo labs around here that recycle fixer ). I don't use selenium toner much, but I use it replenished. For silver nitrate containing waste, I precipitate the silver first with salt and then with sulfide and filter out the silver while decanting. I haven't been very consistent with used film developers but I feel better if they go to an aerating treatment plant... and I use replenished print developer. Replenished developers make a big difference to the total amount of waste liquid. I take 15 gal of waste to the hazardous waste facility about 2 or 3 times a year.

 

[MattKing]

I use replenished print developer

Ned:
Out of curiosity, which one?

 

[Maris]

I post this one a few times a year but it is still relevant.

I've had the luck to enjoy a career in scientific research and analytical chemistry before taking up photography full time. One of my challenges was teaching chemists at the local water supply and sewerage department about photographic chemicals in the effluent they had to treat. The "no fixer down the drain" anxiety comes up about a hundred times a year and has been doing so for at least half a century.

The following does not apply to industrial scale photo materials manufacturing or a major processing lab, only single households connected to a sewer line or a proper septic system:

Developers are mild reducing agents that oxidise rapidly to inert components. The BOD (Biological Oxygen Demand) challenge offered by a home darkroom is much (much!) smaller than the BOD from a dishwasher, in-sink garbage disposal unit, or a toilet.

Stop bath is a very mild acid that has no measurable effects on highly buffered systems like septic tanks or sewerage treatment plants.

In moderate quantities (ounces, not tons) silver tetrathionate and similar compounds which characterise used fixer don't harm sewerage treatment systems or septic systems. The silver very quickly gets converted to silver sulfide in the presence of the free sulfide ion (smells like rotten eggs!). Silver sulfide is geologically stable and biologically inert and has one of the lowest solubility products known in all of chemistry. The stability and inertness of silver sulfide is the key to the remarkable archival properties of sepia toned photographs.

Do your own numbers. Just estimate your yearly use of silver from your photographic materials consumption. Allow for 1 milligram of silver per square inch, and divide this by your yearly water consumption from the water meter. I bet it's in the parts per billion range where no conceivable biological effect can be credibly imagined. If you are discharging into a sewer system your used fixer contribution will be diluted by thousands of household that don't do photographic processing; and that's just about everybody. Down at the treatment plant your speck of silver won't be detectable by any known analytical technique. People washing silverware in their dishwashers will send down more silver than you will ever do.

In my professional career I have inspected home septic systems that have been "ruined" by people doing photographic processing. In every case it has been the fault of extravagant archival washing at the end of the processing sequence. Sending maybe two or three hundred extra litres of water a day into a system not designed for it dilutes the activated sludge and slows the biological reactions that process and neutralise the usual septic stream. The extra water can also overwhelm the soakage pit or trench that lies at the end of the septic system and deliver a squelchy smelly mess underfoot.

The world being what it is many local effluent standards are written by lawyers and/or accountants who don't know a dot of chemistry but know about alarm, blame, culpability, and lawsuits. Even Kodak publication J-300 which is the de facto last word on "fixer down the drain" is more about avoiding potential industrial and environmental litigation and less about the niceties of ultra-small scale chemistry.

Here's a typical calculation: if a home darkroom processes, say, 2000 sheets of 8x10 black and white photographic paper a year and suppose half the silver goes down the drain that's about 3 ounces. At today's spot price that quantity of silver fetches about $50. But recovering that silver involves costs: collection, precipitation, transport, refining, and re-melting. The net return could be small or even negative depending on the refiner you choose. A lot of people would say its not worth the trouble. Opinions differ.

 

[removed account4]

The world being what it is many local effluent standards are written by lawyers and/or accountants who don't know a dot of chemistry but know about alarm, blame, culpability, and lawsuits. Even Kodak publication J-300 which is the de facto last word on "fixer down the drain" is more about avoiding potential industrial and environmental litigation and less about the niceties of ultra-small scale chemistry.

while all you said is undoubtably true
sadly if one gets in trouble for whatever reason, locally, and quotes your post
and says " but this guy worked as a scientifc researcher and posted this information ... " its not really going to matter everything is local, so what might be true for me or you has no relation to anyone else... its best to figure out what the deal is locally no matter how kooky a law might seem to be...

 

[Mackinaw]

I live in the country and have been on septic system for ages. I use Xtol, which has been called the Vitamin C developer, and pour down the drain. Likewise with stop bath, after I add a bit of baking soda to raise the PH. Fixer I take elsewhere.

Jim B.

 

[awty]

The OP will still need to need to dispose of his water as the septic system wont cope with excess water usage especially with clay soil.
Holding tank might be the only option, maybe able to water the yard with it on sunny days or get it carted away.

Here they are more concerned about cross contamination of the water supply so you should have the appropriate check valve. To prevent dark room water getting siphoned aback into the water mains.
Don't think anyone with an ounce of intelligence would prosecute for pouring a few benign chemicals down the drain in hobby use.

Its really no worse than a hairdresser working from home.

 

[NedL]

Ned:
Out of curiosity, which one?

Hi Matt,
I've been using Ethol LPD and I really like it. I've got a simpler replenishment scheme than what you'll read if you look for replenishment instructions here. Feel free to PM me if you decide to try it.

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Ned - I'll keep this in mind!

 

[winger]

FWIW, I have a contract with Safety Kleen. It wasn't easy, though, because they don't really seem to want to deal with non-companies and didn't understand that I fill a 15 gal drum in about 2 years. I consider it expensive ($350/drum), but better than getting in trouble or messing up a neighbor's water (we also all have wells out here as well as septic tanks).
I let rinses go down the drain, but the main chemicals go into the drum. I could save space and money by dumping the stop, but it's not going to make that much difference with the few times I get to use the darkroom lately.

 

[jay moussy]

Some other consideration is of being near a watershed area, that is, a zone near a town underground water supply - like me.

As I understand this long read, my future three rolls/month, low volume post-fixer rinse water (Ilford method) could be drained over my own yard, eventually being absorbed by soil matter?

 

[removed account4]

the problem with people advising people over the internet about what they should or should not do with their spent fotochemiztry is that what one person does might be OK where they live and in their particular situation but where someone else lives someone does the same thing it's not kosher. the best thing to do is find out what is legal where one lives and not worry about what other people are doing cause it is pretty much irrelevant. years ago there were people here who had the fire department go to their house so they could ask them if it was ok to dump their chems (color) down the drain (firedepartment guys said " sure why not" >> wrong answer! ), it was around the same time another person who claimed they were a chemist suggested selenium toner was harmless and not toxic and one could do whatever they wanted with it, because its found in multi vites and nature (wrong answer, selenium is bad-stuff ), just like what some folks do with their cyaanyde fixxer dump it down the drain or in their yard because "it comes from nature" (YIKES!). makes me cringe sometimes when i read what people say.... or they tell me over coffee .. all i gotta say is that glad i'm not anywhere near their vegetable garden !

 

[Old_Dick]

Sorry for this question. What about letting the spent fixer evaporate? Is the dust left behind the problem? Can it be safely trashed in some way?