Century Graphic compatible Roll Film Backs

[Chuckwade87]

In a recent, and particularly acute fit of madness, I bought a Century Graphic 2x3 with a Polaroid Pathfinder Lens and shutter, original 6x9 roll film back as well as a sheet film back. In the research I did of the camera prior to buying it, it was clear that the original 6x9 back wasn't that good at keeping the film flat, so I did some reading on the mercury website concerning the compatibility of the different film backs. As I understand the Horseman 8exp 6x9 is the best but it won't directly fit the century graphics graflok back.
However, I also understand that the Mamiya RB67 backs are supposed to directly mount, though there are conflicting posts on the Google search that seems to contradict even this, with the late Pro-s and ProSd dark slide interlocks.
I've searched Google and YouTube for photos and videos of one of these backs being on the Century graphic but to no avail.
I searched the forum here but I couldn't find anything about the Mamiya Film backs or the Horseman fitting on the Century Graphic. So I figured I would try and ask her ...

 

[Dan Fromm]

As I understand the Horseman 8exp 6x9 is the best but it won't directly fit the century graphics graflok back.

Where did you see that?

Please see:
https://archive.org/details/sinar-rollfilm-holder-zoom-2-en Horseman. It has user manuals for Linhof Rapid Rollex, Linhof Super Rollex, Linhof Techno Rollex, Sinar (parts list too) , Toyo and Wista user manuals. Roll holder specifications and Rapid Rollex manual thanks to Oren Grad. Toyo and Sinar made insertion type roll holders for 2x3, Wista made clip-on types that fit Graflok/International backs. AFAIK Horseman's 2x3 roll holders are compatible with the Century Graphic, with one caveat. Early ones have to be mounted upside down.

 

[Chuckwade87]

Where did you see that?

I believe I saw a thread here somewhere on here or maybe photo.net

https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/241617-help-my-horseman-back-doesnt-fit-my-century-graphic/

Maybe he was having a user error?

 

[Chuckwade87]

Where did you see that?

Please see:
https://archive.org/details/sinar-rollfilm-holder-zoom-2-en Horseman. It has user manuals for Linhof Rapid Rollex, Linhof Super Rollex, Linhof Techno Rollex, Sinar (parts list too) , Toyo and Wista user manuals. Roll holder specifications and Rapid Rollex manual thanks to Oren Grad. Toyo and Sinar made insertion type roll holders for 2x3, Wista made clip-on types that fit Graflok/International backs. AFAIK Horseman's 2x3 roll holders are compatible with the Century Graphic, with one caveat. Early ones have to be mounted upside down.

Thanks Dan, for sharing that link but it leads me to an article that cannot be found. All information is greatly appreciated.

I'd like to purchase the RB67 6x4.5 and the Horseman 6x9, but I'd hate to purchase them and they not work for whatever reason.

 

[reddesert]

There are different kinds of Horseman roll film holders, and on some of them the mating surface (the part that fits against the camera) and the body of the RFH are quite long. The concern I would have is that I think the camera back on a Century has a non-removable stop at the side opposite where you insert the film holders, and that may interfere with some of the Horseman backs.

Here are three different Horseman holders where if you look at the end opposite the dark slide, they're all different dimensions. Sorry for the ebay links, if these links expire, the holders are respectively: tall wind knob, long chrome wind lever, short black wind lever.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/388390451541

https://www.ebay.com/itm/146565656540

https://www.ebay.com/itm/167317252063

Anyway, I also feel the question is, have you tried the original Graphic roll holder, or are you worried about stuff people say about it on the internet? You could probably use: a Graphic 2x3 RH-8 lever wind roll holder, an earlier Mamiya RB67 holder without the interlocks, or a later RB67 holder (most likely issue is that the interlocks don't work and you have to flip a little lever to wind after exposing, which you do on most of these holders anyway).

 

[Chuckwade87]

You are correct I haven't tried the original roll holder, the one I am getting is the one with the knob advance. So I was concerned about the film flatness.
I was looking at a the last eBay horseman link that you sent for the graflex, it looks similar to the RB67 back

 

[F4U]

Strange, because the stuff I've been reading said the Graphic roll film holders were the best at film flatness. Just shows to go ya... don't believe everything you see on the internet.

 

[chuckroast]

In a recent, and particularly acute fit of madness, I bought a Century Graphic 2x3 with a Polaroid Pathfinder Lens and shutter, original 6x9 roll film back as well as a sheet film back. In the research I did of the camera prior to buying it, it was clear that the original 6x9 back wasn't that good at keeping the film flat, so I did some reading on the mercury website concerning the compatibility of the different film backs. As I understand the Horseman 8exp 6x9 is the best but it won't directly fit the century graphics graflok back.
However, I also understand that the Mamiya RB67 backs are supposed to directly mount, though there are conflicting posts on the Google search that seems to contradict even this, with the late Pro-s and ProSd dark slide interlocks.
I've searched Google and YouTube for photos and videos of one of these backs being on the Century graphic but to no avail.
I searched the forum here but I couldn't find anything about the Mamiya Film backs or the Horseman fitting on the Century Graphic. So I figured I would try and ask her ...

I have owned 2 different Centuries and ended up with a "Baby" Speed which I upgraded with a NOS Graflok back Graflex made for that camera (what a find!).

I have shot those cameras with RH8 and sheet film holders (not to mention Tri-X in film packs I found a few years ago) with no issues whatever as regard to sharpness or film flatness. So long as you load the insert with a bit of pressure on the supply reel to maintain tension on the initial wind, you should be fine.

I generally prefer the RH backs that have a lever advance, rather than the older knob advance. The difference is purely one of convenience and I own- and use both.

I do have some extra sheet film holders and film development hangers I could be persuaded to part with for a reasonable sum if you are interested. I may even have an extra RH8 back, I'd have to look. PM me if you're interested.

Enjoy your Century. When fitted with a good lens, they can produce terrific images. The 101mm f/4.5 Ektar that came with my Speed is shockingly sharp and contrasty.

 

[F4U]

I have owned 2 different Centuries and ended up with a "Baby" Speed which I upgraded with a NOS Graflok back Graflex made for that camera (what a find!).

I have shot those cameras with RH8 and sheet film holders (not to mention Tri-X in film packs I found a few years ago) with no issues whatever as regard to sharpness or film flatness. So long as you load the insert with a bit of pressure on the supply reel to maintain tension on the initial wind, you should be fine.

I generally prefer the RH backs that have a lever advance, rather than the older knob advance. The difference is purely one of convenience and I own- and use both.

I do have some extra sheet film holders and film development hangers I could be persuaded to part with for a reasonable sum if you are interested. I may even have an extra RH8 back, I'd have to look. PM me if you're interested.

Enjoy your Century. When fitted with a good lens, they can produce terrific images. The 101mm f/4.5 Ektar that came with my Speed is shockingly sharp and contrasty.

I've got a lever advance back and the lever mechanism is jammed. And there's no non-destructive way to get it disassembled to investigate or repair. I'm sticking with the knob type as it has no need of a return spring mechanism. But since whoever sold it to me year ago had mis-matched the shell by putting in a 220 insert, none of it was any good to me anyway. Whether it's a knob type or fast lever type is inconsequential, as a Speed Graphic isn't exactly a whirlwind of speed to operate anyway.

 

[chuckroast]

I've got a lever advance back and the lever mechanism is jammed. And there's no non-destructive way to get it disassembled to investigate or repair. I'm sticking with the knob type as it has no need of a return spring mechanism. But since whoever sold it to me year ago had mis-matched the shell by putting in a 220 insert, none of it was any good to me anyway. Whether it's a knob type or fast lever type is inconsequential, as a Speed Graphic isn't exactly a whirlwind of speed to operate anyway.

Well that's a shame. I was hoping someone might be looking for an extra RH20 220 film insert that I have here

 

[ivan35mm]

See Guide to Graflok 120/220 film backs

I was looking at a the last eBay horseman link that you sent for the graflex, it looks similar to the RB67 back

The Speed Graphics Graflok system won't accept the RB67 backs, because they are too big.... aka something sticks out too much and the graflok back won't mate with the mamiya back.

But you are correct, they do look very similar, because technically the RB67 is a graflok, but its not haha

The last eBay horseman link is the correct one for your Century Graphic 2x3

 

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks Dan, for sharing that link but it leads me to an article that cannot be found. All information is greatly appreciated.

I'd like to purchase the RB67 6x4.5 and the Horseman 6x9, but I'd hate to purchase them and they not work for whatever reason.

Sorry, typo. The link should behttps://archive.org/details/sinar-rollfilm-holder-zoom-2-en/Horseman_Roll_Film_Holder_manual/ It will take you to manuals for a number of roll holders.

 

[ivan35mm]

The Speed Graphics Graflok system won't accept the RB67 backs, because they are too big.... aka something sticks out too much and the graflok back won't mate with the mamiya back.

But you are correct, they do look very similar, because technically the RB67 is a graflok, but its not haha

I might be wrong.... I remember reading the Mamiya RB and Graflok system does not work, due to some dimensional issues, but have not tested this personally

 

[F4U]

I once attached an RB67 back to a Speed Graphic with spring back by removing the spring back and fashioning something to hold the RB back on, using the 2 screw holes tat held on the spring back. As I remember, it fit well enough, but I never did know if the film plane was correct. But right away I discovered you really can't use a roll film back on a baby Graphic because the roll film back won't let you get your eye close enough to the view finder. So now I use a 4x5 Speed and a Super with roll film back, and got a 90mm lens in a Graphex shutter and mounted it on a 3D print lens board I designed. And did not calibrate the Kalart finder for 90mm. It's still calibrated for the 135 Optar. So I focus in the normal way and just transpose the distance to another scale I made. You really don't have to, because on a 90mm, the difference between infinity and 15 feet is so little, by the time you stop down, there's no real difference.

 

[Chuckwade87]

The Speed Graphics Graflok system won't accept the RB67 backs, because they are too big.... aka something sticks out too much and the graflok back won't mate with the mamiya back.

But you are correct, they do look very similar, because technically the RB67 is a graflok, but its not haha

The last eBay horseman link is the correct one for your Century Graphic 2x3

Thank you for helping me out. And thanks Dan for sending the link. I had referenced the Mercury Guide before, but I just wanted to verify really...So the Mamiya Back 6x4.5 won't fit on the Speed Graphic but will it fit the Century Graphic? I guess there's no one out there that has tried?

 

[MsLing]

Ah, I use Toyo 69/45 back, to keep film flat, I even make and use 220 style 120 film (remove backing paper). I guess Sinar and Cambo back will work better, but these backs only made for Graflok 4x5.

 

[Chuckwade87]

Thanks MsLing, I might buy a horseman 6x9 and just use the original knob advance roll film holder and compare the two, and go from there...

 

[Besk]

1) I HAVE mounted my Mamiya 6x7 back on my Speed Graphic just to check. I normally use it on my Crown Graphic.
It took a bit of maneuvering to get one of the locking slides to work but that has more to do with dimensions than anything else in my opinion.

2) The later model (Black) Horseman holders will fit on the Century Graphic with some modification of the Graphic.
This has been posted several times in the past. The side (which serves as a light baffle) opposite the dark slide inserting side is too tall and keeps the Horseman back from mating with the camera back. It must be filed down a little.
Once that is done, the tabs of the locking slides (which are chrome plated brass) interfere with the Horseman back and don't allow them to perform their function. Only a part of these tabs must be filed away to allow them to lock the back into place.

 

[Donald Qualls]

the Mamiya RB67 backs are supposed to directly mount, though there are conflicting posts on the Google search

I have both a Century and an RB67. Either one will mount Graflex roll film holders (22, 23, RH-something) in 2x3 mount, and either one will mount RB67 roll backs (Pro, Pro-S, or Pro-SD). The interlocks for RB67 backs (double exposure, dark slide related) won't work with the Graflex backs mounted (so you can inadvertently expose and advance with the dark slide in place, or dismount the back with the dark slide out), but if you pay attention it works very well.

Horseman backs are well out of my price range, but if you don't already have one, a Graflex 23 or RH8 (if cleaned and checked) will do a fine job on that Century.

 

[Chuckwade87]

I have both a Century and an RB67. Either one will mount Graflex roll film holders (22, 23, RH-something) in 2x3 mount, and either one will mount RB67 roll backs (Pro, Pro-S, or Pro-SD). The interlocks for RB67 backs (double exposure, dark slide related) won't work with the Graflex backs mounted (so you can inadvertently expose and advance with the dark slide in place, or dismount the back with the dark slide out), but if you pay attention it works very well.

Horseman backs are well out of my price range, but if you don't already have one, a Graflex 23 or RH8 (if cleaned and checked) will do a fine job on that Century.

Thanks, your the only one who has actual first hand knowledge it seems of them fitting, and as you can see from the other replies, there are conflicting statements so it's difficult to pin down the truth.

Honestly, I might just get another graflex back, this seems like a headache in retrospect.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I might just get another graflex back, this seems like a headache in retrospect.

I don't think it would be worth spending the money for a Horseman roll holder and then having to modify both the roll holder and the camera's mounting hardware to be able to use it. An RH8 (lever advance) or 23 (knob wind) will do the job, and were built to fit the 2x3 Speed, Crown, and Century.

 

[Chuckwade87]

I don't think it would be worth spending the money for a Horseman roll holder and then having to modify both the roll holder and the camera's mounting hardware to be able to use it. An RH8 (lever advance) or 23 (knob wind) will do the job, and were built to fit the 2x3 Speed, Crown, and Century.

What's your experience with the RB67 backs and the Century? Have you used the 6x4.5? Or just the 6x7?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I've got a 6x4.5 back and several 6x7 backs (including one 220 back), and Graflex 22, 23, and a (slightly noisy) RH20. All work equally well. The difference with the 6x4.5 back is crop factor; that back makes a 100-105 mm lens a portrait length instead of "normal" as it would be on 6x9.

 

[choiliefan]

I've used several different Graphic as well as SD holders on my 2X3 Speed, XL and Century with the same results an Donald. If you go shopping for different Graphic roll holders look for the "newer" ones with rollers on the inside of the film gate (for lack of proper terminology).

 

[Donald Qualls]

And if you get RB67 roll backs, any generation (Pro, ProS, or ProSD) will have those rollers as well, plus will all be length-counting (so film thickness won't affect frame spacing) and lever advance. If you get an RB67 220 back, it's very easily converted to be able to correctly space 35 mm film fed from a standard cassette (though you'll generally have to unload in a darkroom or changing bag, as there's no rewind capability).