Cell Phone Photography and Sexting

[Anscojohn]

Some kid taking a picture of themselves, and then sending it to some other kid is vastly different than kiddie porn. Whoever brought the charges needs their head examined. Parenting and discipline are called for here, not a further burden on our overtaxed public resources and lumbering criminal justice system.

*****
I think that, had it been anyone but a teacher, it might have had a different out come. But, in the litigious age in this country; had the teacher been aware of the pictures; not made the higher ups aware of them; then some sue-happy parents would have found a reason to bring a case. I guess it's like the bartender being held accountable for serving the drunk that one last drink--they allow it to continue--they are liable.

 

[Absinthe]

Matt --

The thing I read was that there was not a mandatory sentencing requirement of jail time per se. However, the mandate was that if convicted of this particular crime, registry as a sex offender was mandated.

 

[BobNewYork]

I think you're right John. But it's not just the litigious nature of society, (which, I can assure you I am NOT defending) but the fact that a judgement call by the teacher can be second guessed way in the future and result in a loss of their license to teach. The teacher covered his/her a**, (justifiably) by reporting the incident which has led to silly kids facing mandatory sentences because of poorly crafted legislation. I understand what Absinthe says re: too many cooks spoil the broth, but when it comes down to it, the people are not being well served by their legislatures. (Guess that's not really news, is it!) At the end of the day, there seems to be little room left for common sense on the part of the judiciary - and that's a real problem.

Bob H

 

[MattKing]

Matt --

The thing I read was that there was not a mandatory sentencing requirement of jail time per se. However, the mandate was that if convicted of this particular crime, registry as a sex offender was mandated.

Absinthe:

I'm not really talking about the penalty. I'm talking about the process and the sense of "moral turpitude" that attaches itself to the allegation and conviction.

As an example, compare the difference in our local laws between bylaw infractions, and criminal convictions.

There is a penalty that attaches to both, but the infractions don't carry with them a lifelong criminal record with far reaching ramifications (such as inability to travel to other countries, inability to be hired for certain jobs or admitted to certain professions, etc.).

There also tends to be a higher standard of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) for criminal convictions vs. many infractions (often balance of probabilities). Paradoxically, this often leads to a refusal to bring charges, when some sort of consequence might be more appropriate.

Matt

 

[Ria]

"LIPWOCFP"
?

 

[Anscojohn]

I think you're right John. But it's not just the litigious nature of society, (which, I can assure you I am NOT defending) but the fact that a judgement call by the teacher can be second guessed way in the future and result in a loss of their license to teach. The teacher covered his/her a**, (justifiably) by reporting the incident which has led to silly kids facing mandatory sentences because of poorly crafted legislation. I understand what Absinthe says re: too many cooks spoil the broth, but when it comes down to it, the people are not being well served by their legislatures. (Guess that's not really news, is it!) At the end of the day, there seems to be little room left for common sense on the part of the judiciary - and that's a real problem.

Bob H

*****
I attended a Pennsylvania teacher's college in the early 1960s. Many of my college friends are recently retired teachers and school administrators. The stories I heard over the years about what parents will do to "protect" their little darlins (I'm talking mostly about jr hi and h.s.)--rather than teach the kids civility, common sense, an appreciation privacy, and decent restraint were pretty disheartening. In the above case, just let one parent find that a teen age boy was showing pictures of their daughter around the school; and that a teacher knew about the pictures and did not intervene, and the lawyers would be circling and smacking their sharklike chops.

And as someone having been in the retail camera biz for many years, rest assured that ANYthing involving underage, unclothed kids is going to set off the alarms, rightly or wrongly; properly crafted legislation or not.

 

[Absinthe]

"LIPWOCFP"
?

Life In Prison WithOut Chance For Parole

 

[JBrunner]

*****
I think that, had it been anyone but a teacher, it might have had a different out come. But, in the litigious age in this country; had the teacher been aware of the pictures; not made the higher ups aware of them; then some sue-happy parents would have found a reason to bring a case. I guess it's like the bartender being held accountable for serving the drunk that one last drink--they allow it to continue--they are liable.

The reporting isn't at issue. The teacher was right to bring it forward. It's the mental midgetry of filing criminal charges that wreaks of idiocy.

 

[Anscojohn]

The reporting isn't at issue. The teacher was right to bring it forward. It's the mental midgetry of filing criminal charges that wreaks of idiocy.

*****
Yes, you may be right. But filing criminal charges might just be an example of the school administrators doing a thorough job of CYA. Itself a sad commentary on the times.

 

[JBrunner]

*****
Yes, you may be right. But filing criminal charges might just be an example of the school administrators doing a thorough job of CYA. Itself a sad commentary on the times.

Criminal charges aren't a tort. School officials can't, nor can any common person file them, as in you or they can't charge anyone with anything other than a tort, which amounts to more or less a civil dispute. Only a DA's office or public prosecutor has the ability to file criminal charges.

 

[Anscojohn]

Criminal charges aren't a tort. School officials can't, nor can any common person file them, as in you or they can't charge anyone with anything other than a tort, which amounts to more or less a civil dispute. Only a DA's office or public prosecutor has the ability to file criminal charges.

*****
I'm sure you must be right; even though I don't know exactly what you are talking about.

 

[JBrunner]

*****
I'm sure you must be right; even though I don't know exactly what you are talking about.

Hi John,

I'm far from any kind of legal expert, but in the US in a nutshell crimes have to be charged by an authority. A person can accuse someone of a crime, but an authority such as a prosecutor or district attorney must actually determine that the charge has merit and carries evidence enough for indictment and then charge the person with a crime, and then the authority prosecutes the criminal offense through the court system, and such things appear on the docket as "State of Utah vs. Joe Blow", etc. The only things citizens can bring to court are "torts" basically legalese for lawsuit, for instance you "sue" for divorce, or you sue somebody for injuring you. In this case somebody had to advance the circumstance as crime and then some prosecutor had to decide that the accusation warranted a criminal charge, carried a reasonable chance of conviction, and subsequently pursue a trial or a bargain. A trial in this case will be a tremendous waste of taxpayer money and judicial resources, regardless of the outcome, but were I in the shoes of the accused I might consider holding out for one, as I doubt many jurors are apt to send some teenage kid up the river for having a dirty picture on his cell phone that was willingly sent to him by the "victim", who is a similar age but more importantly in the same demographic. As has been pointed out, if he had simply had sex with her and gotten her pregnant, he wouldn't be in trouble. Most prosecutors have have at least some discretion to decide what they wish to pursue. Most likely this case is politically motivated in some way, or is believed by someone to be a career step. Of course sheer blinding stupidity is also a possibility.

 

[GeorgeDexter]

I'm surprised to be saying this, but...

Absinthe said: Wait a second... What is so terrible about the possibly that the photograph taken by the teen of herself be disseminated? She is not harmed in the least, unless you count the fact that her copyright has ben violated. Or perhaps some embarassment.. I believe the harm in child pornography is the coercion, abuse and exploitation of the children involved. None of which has happened in this situation. Kind of no-harm no-foul.

I have to agree with Absinthe on some level. If the kids aren't being coerced or exploited, what's the harm. Yes, I'd rather not have kids 'sexting', but should we throw them in jail or brand them sex-offenders? What if a minor 'sexts' you in an unsolicited fashion. Is deleting it enough to protect you from prosecution? A record of the photo and possibly a file of it will exist in the cell providers servers. Should they be prosecuted too, for aiding in the distribution of pornographic material?

If kids want to flash each other, let them. If it gets posted by some creep on the internet, well, maybe they'll learn that there are consequences to stupid actions. If they're 'sexting' they're most likely having sex, too, which definitely can have much more serious consequences.

 

[gerryyaum]

thought you were refering to sexTON as in John...sexting? learn something everyday I guess

 

[jd callow]

If kids want to flash each other, let them. If it gets posted by some creep on the internet, well, maybe they'll learn that there are consequences to stupid actions. If they're 'sexting' they're most likely having sex, too, which definitely can have much more serious consequences.

The embarrassment is part of the processes. Kids push until there is a push back or blow back and then they learn. I don't know what kids are like today, but back in my day, there was a difference between flirting or even exhibition and promiscuity -- or maybe it was just me.

 

[removed-user-1]

One more consequence will be that people who now take the sex offender list seriously will see them as polluted with people who really shouldn't be on there. So the lists will lose effectiveness, further weakening the protection for children. (Not that I really think those lists work, or are a great idea, but this will not help.)

Agreed... this fiasco falls squarely into the categories "overzealous" and "misguided." IANAL, but I have always been under the impression that acts committed while a minor, unless exceptionally heinous (which this certainly isn't), are generally off your record once you reach the age of majority, at least in the US.

What ever happened to simply giving all parties involved some kind of sanction, such as in-school suspension (enforced study hall, basically) for a week, if it is determined that punishment is warranted? That sort of thing used to be pretty standard for "stupid teenage behavior" but now the police are called? Ok...

 

[BobNewYork]

Agreed... but I have always been under the impression that acts committed while a minor, unless exceptionally heinous (which this certainly isn't), are generally off your record once you reach the age of majority, at least in the US.

What ever happened to simply giving all parties involved some kind of sanction, such as in-school suspension (enforced study hall, basically) for a week, if it is determined that punishment is warranted? That sort of thing used to be pretty standard for "stupid teenage behavior" but now the police are called? Ok...

I think the problem here is that they've been charged as adults so I'm not even sure if the record is expunged when they reach the age of majority. I also think that public shaming is inappropriate - smacks of the Scarlet Letter days.Grounding - or even more heinous, cancellation of their cell phones (!) - would be far more appropriate.

It seems that everyone has forgotten what it was like to be a teenager. That's the only thing that got me through when my own kids were teenagers. I recall telling one of my sons at age 17: "The problem with your generation is that it thinks it invented sex and drugs and rock and roll. Well it didn't - it was MY generation!"

Bob H

 

[Absinthe]

I love to remind my teenagers how amazed they will be at how much smarter I will get when they get older.

 

[BobNewYork]

I love to remind my teenagers how amazed they will be at how much smarter I will get when they get older.

How true - but believe me when they do find out they'll never admit it! Hell, I never did. And I can so clearly remember being 16 and just couldn't understand how on earth my parents had managed to make it in the world because they just didn't get it!

Plus ca change.............

Bob H

 

[Absinthe]

There used to be a plaque available in one of the novelty stores that said something to the effect that "You teenagers should hurry up and leave home and get out in the world while you still 'know-it-all'"

My son had a "toxic relationship" but was convinced that he loved her. It was obvious to even the most casual observer that this was not good. However, I took him aside and flat out told him "I can explain this whole thing to you very plainly and simply, however, you are currently incapable of hearing what it is I have to say. I hope it all works out for you, and in a few years we can discuss it."

I was kind of proud of myself in that I knew where my limitations where, and ultimately things worked out and she is not in the picture <spit on the floor> anymore.

You can try and do everything right. But in the end it is like drug store processing your film. You do your best to expose the film correctly, light your image, and in the end once it is out of your hands you hope that the images that come back you still recognize them...

 

[BobNewYork]

There used to be a plaque available in one of the novelty stores that said something to the effect that "You teenagers should hurry up and leave home and get out in the world while you still 'know-it-all'"

You can try and do everything right. But in the end it is like drug store processing your film. You do your best to expose the film correctly, light your image, and in the end once it is out of your hands you hope that the images that come back you still recognize them...

A couple of years ago someone complained to ma that kids don't come with instructions. My response was that, if they did, it would be the end of our species - 'cos no-one would have them!!

Bob H

 

[DJGainer]

Update: http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/new...federaljudgeblockschargesinpasextingcase.html

 

[BobNewYork]

And yet another prosecutor whose personal need for publicity overrides justice. Even with the cooler head f the judge this idiot wants to appeal the ruling. What is wrong with this idiot? Just watch - there'll be more of these ridiculous cases coming up because of the publicity this one got. "Copy Cat Prosecutors" !!

Bob H

 

[Aurum]

Just seems to prove the joke.

Definition of a lawyer up to his nostrils in a cess-pool

A damn good start!

 

[BobNewYork]

Just seems to prove the joke.

Definition of a lawyer up to his nostrils in a cess-pool

A damn good start!

Bob H