Catlabs X80 and Shanghai GP3- Same Film?

braxus · May 3, 2020

I have read in previous posts that suggest these two films are indeed the same film and not a different coated film on the same machinery as GP3. One giveaway was the 120 Catlabs X80 roll film comes with GP3 paper. Another used a densitometer to test both films and the results were very similar. Being one film is 100 ISO and the other 80 ISO, can one suggest they are the same? Anyone have any other proof to say they are the same film? I see on Ebay GP3 for sale in fresh boxes going up to 2022. I was wondering to buy it direct instead of going CatLabs route to basically buy a reboxed film? Has the imperfections in GP3 been resolved with current production, including the issue with pinholes in the sheet film? I know 120 has backing paper issues with the tape, but thats on both brands and current as well.

Some used to say GP3 was similar to Kodak Plus X, while Catlabs X80 would say its similar to Panatomic X. Those two films have quite a different look, especially in mid tones. If X80 and GP3 are said to be the same film, how could the comparison Kodak film be so different?

NortheastPhotographic · May 3, 2020

Catlabs says no. They use the same factory but special order this emulsion based on their specs. The differences between an 80 ISO film and a 100 would be minimal. It's pretty much impossible to know the answer here from a consumer perspective unless you have a ton of experience with GP3. Plus if you watch the comparison between Tri-X and HP5 by The Naked Photographer on Youtube you see how slim the differences are between two films you'd expect to have more identifiable characteristics.

I've just decided to believe Catlabs and am shooting it with good results. It's a nice film, whatever it is. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

braxus · May 3, 2020

Issues with the new CatLABS X 80 film . . .

BrianShaw · May 3, 2020

I’m curious... what doubt remains in your mind that wasn’t addressed in that thread? Or is it that the various observations and opinions just aren’t adding up to a definitive answer?

braxus · May 3, 2020

The fact the comparison films are so different in look (Kodak films) as I mentioned. If they were both said to look either like Plus X or Pan X, I wouldn't question it. But Plus X and Pan X have different mid tone looks, Plus X has more contrast and deeper blacks and not as much mid tones. Pan X is all about mid tones with less contrast.

And I heard as the other poster mentioned, that CatLabs X80 was supposed to be a different emulsion on the same Shanghai machinery.

BrianShaw · May 3, 2020

Ah... yes. My plan is to shoot some myself and see what I think. I bought some but just haven’t had the time yet. I hope I’d recognize the Plus-X look but not sure I’d recognize a Pan X look since I never shot much of that film.

At the moment I’m completely believing Omer... he seems an honest person.

braxus · May 3, 2020

As long as its not Omer Cordell. The price for the GP3 is ever so slightly cheaper on Ebay then ordering some Catlabs X80 on Freestyle. And coming directly from China, the film should be fresher. But I'd love to hear more answers on this comparison before placing an order for one or the other. I love both Plus X and Pan X, so that isn't an issue. I'd just like to know exactly what Im getting when ordering one or the other.

BrianShaw · May 3, 2020

Just make sure you don’t get stuck in “analysis paralysis”. I was curious, too, and bought some direct from CatLABS. It’s not like choosing a bride...

Pieter12 · May 3, 2020

At least made in the same facility. This is the exposed end tape from a roll of CATLabs.

TheFlyingCamera · May 3, 2020

Here's a result from it in 8x10 sheet film:

I'm seeing a lot of talking about the film without any results to validate opinions. I don't care if it is GP3 or something custom. I do care that it produces results, which it does. I got it because I wanted a slow film to shoot in my 8x10 with lenses that don't have shutters. It perfectly fits that bill - I rate it at around ISO 25, process it in Pyrocat HD 1:1:100 for 14 minutes at 75 F. That produced the above.

braxus · May 3, 2020

8x10 is the format I want to get some of this film for. The price is right and the results are good. Im still not sure whether to get one brand or the other. I could always get a box of both and just try it. But I'd hate to waste a second sheet just on testing the same picture, since 8x10 is not cost effective. If it is nice enough, I could get a box of 4x5 too. And stock up more on 120. Years ago GP3 used to be in 35mm. Not anymore. I wonder why?

Andrew O'Neill · May 3, 2020

I've been shooting Shanghai 8x10 on and off for a few years. It's nice. EI 50 in Pyrocat-HD.

mshchem · May 3, 2020

I don't understand why it matters who makes it. I haven't tried the Catlabs film. In 120 I am most likely to shoot TMY-2, it's what I'm used to. I shoot quite a bit Ilford films as well. The new Acros II isn't coated by Fuji but that certainly doesn't mean it's not uniquely a Fuji product.

braxus · May 3, 2020

I never said I cared who makes the film, as its obviously both from the same factory. My question is if they are the same film or a similar one?

mshchem · May 3, 2020

I would buy a dozen rolls of each and see what's up.

MattKing · May 3, 2020

mshchem said:
I would buy a dozen rolls of each and see what's up.

That may not solve the problem, as the OP is looking for 8x10 film.
Even if the two 120 films are the same, there is no guarantee that two versions of 8x10 film would be the same.

mshchem · May 3, 2020

Ok so buy boxes of 8x10.

I don't understand comparisons to films that haven't been around for decades. The last iteration of Plus-X was "modern" film. Panatomic-X, Plus-X and Tri-X roll films of the 70's are, I suspect different from anything, made anywhere, today.
How it's used especially black and white film that who knows how many variables there can be?

The only way is to compare

I'm pining for some Ektapan and Super-XX .

John Wiegerink · May 4, 2020

braxus said:
8x10 is the format I want to get some of this film for. The price is right and the results are good. Im still not sure whether to get one brand or the other. I could always get a box of both and just try it. But I'd hate to waste a second sheet just on testing the same picture, since 8x10 is not cost effective. If it is nice enough, I could get a box of 4x5 too. And stock up more on 120. Years ago GP3 used to be in 35mm. Not anymore. I wonder why?

Well how many rolls of 35mm do you want? eBay has GP3 35mm.

Andrew O'Neill · May 4, 2020

braxus, just grab yourself a box of either. I've got a reciprocity chart for Shanghai, if you need one. Reciprocity for that film is brutal.

Lachlan Young · May 4, 2020

mshchem said:
I don't understand comparisons to films that haven't been around for decades. The last iteration of Plus-X was "modern" film. Panatomic-X, Plus-X and Tri-X roll films of the 70's are, I suspect different from anything, made anywhere, today.

The thing that I find really striking is that not one of the would-be FX revivalists can point to any specific characteristic that FX was better at than any post-1985 emulsion, other than some weird macho film-speed fetish thing they all seem to have going on. Just to really wind them up, I wonder how many of them know that for a very long time Verichrome Pan and Plus-X (the 35mm version - aka 'PX') were essentially the same emulsion (barring some coating differences)...

The Catlabs/ Shanghai film looks fine for what it is - a moderate speed, mid 20th century emulsion with no particularly extreme characteristics & a nice overall 'look'.

braxus · May 4, 2020

I can vouch Pan X was a great film. Yes its slower speed was different then modern films. Pan X had such beautiful tones, especially a lot of mid tones, with less contrast (especially for such a slow film). It also had a glow about it that modern films seemed to lack. I can't clarify that glow, as thats all I know how to call it. The grain was traditional, so none of that T grain stuff. It also was a film that aged well, as you can use this film from decades ago and still get great results from it. So there is my take on Pan X.

I took a look as yes GP3 is in 35mm and fresh stock. I wonder why Catlabs doesnt have theirs in 35mm, as it doesn't seem to be a problem to make it in.

John Wiegerink · May 6, 2020

Found this on the big auction site also:

The Freshest Professional Shanghai ISO 100 B/W Sheet Film Negative
Pictures for reference only! Presale items, shipping will start after the middle of every month.

Attention: 8x20'', 12x20'', 16x20'', 20x24'' format will be shipped by fast shipping like UPS, DHL, DPEX, buyers need to pay for part of the shipping fees, because the packing is too large.
Item: Black & white B/W negative film
Brand Name: Shanghai
Film Format: Custom cutting
ISO: 100
Minimum: Depends on different format
Expiration Date: 09-2021
Condition: Brand new unopened.
Additional Service: Custom cutting film service provide, please contact with us for quotation.
PS: After biding, please leave note on PayPal or send us a separated e-mail for what film format you want, we will send you an invoice for difference payment. The following is the film format choosing, if no film dimensions you want, please feel free to contact with us, we accept custom cutting by providing detailed size.
Format Film size Sheets/Box Price
Graflex 6x9 57x83mm 100/1 $90
Linhof 6x9 62x89mm 100/1 $99
Voigtlander 6x9 63.5x89.5mm 100/1 $100
9x12cm 89x119mm 50/1 $80
13x18cm 129x179mm 50/1 $131
5x8'' 126x203mm 50/1 $140
6x8'' 152x203mm 50/1 $165
8x8'' 203x203mm 50/1 $200
4x10'' 101x253mm 50/1 $140
7x17'' 177x430mm 25/1 $179
8x16'' 203x406mm 10/1 $94
8x20'' 203x506mm 10/1 $108
10x12'' 253x304mm 25/1 $189
11x14'' 278x355mm 10/1 $105
14x17'' 355x430mm 10/1 $149
12x16'' 304x406mm 10/1 $125
12x20'' 304x507mm 10/1 $152
16x20'' 405x507mm 10/1 $200
20x24'' 507x608mm 10/1 $270
Made in the same factory as GP3 120 rolls in Shanghai China.

Great for folks with folding plate cameras.

removedacct1 · May 6, 2020

Andrew O'Neill said:
I've got a reciprocity chart for Shanghai, if you need one. Reciprocity for that film is brutal.

Andrew, I'm interested to see a reciprocity chart. I'd like to have a starting point to apply to the X80, for which no reciprocity data has been presented, as far as I can tell. Thanks.

SilverShutter · May 6, 2020

Wasn't CatLabs involved in some sort of comeback of peel-apart film that was never true? I recall them making an epic tale about it. Wouldn't surprise me if it was just an overpriced rebadged film considering their previous and current business practices.

BrianShaw · May 6, 2020

Overpriced? I was quite satisfied with CatLabs pricing.

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