Carbon Gelatine Prints

[donbga]

Read on:

http://www.mantinieri.com/techniques.html

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

So this sounds like basically a B&W carbon inkjet print on unsubbed art paper that's been washed and coated with a gelatin solution.

 

[carioca]

So this sounds like basically a B&W carbon inkjet print on unsubbed art paper that's been washed and coated with a gelatin solution.

I once tested printing ink jet on traditional art paper, it was a disaster!
I can't figure out how the ink is supposed to get trapped inside the paper fibers...

 

[Daniel Balfour]

Sounds like another reinvention of the wheel to me

 

[donbga]

I think their method is a bit different than perhaps is immediately obvious. They are mixing their own inks to begin with to control dot gain.

And they aren't super coating their papers with a product like ink-aid. I've not seen any of their prints nor do I know anyone that has, but they maybe on to something unique, but then maybe not. Time will tell. It's certainly not something I'm apt to try.

Don Bryant

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The idea of a gelatin overcoat is interesting, and it wouldn't be that hard to do. It could be a solution of 5-15% with an additive like thymol to prevent mold, and it would be applied warm. You could do it with a coating rod with a couple layers of tape around each end, to create a gap between the rod and the paper surface. It would add gloss and eliminate any gloss differential in the ink, and it is a material used in conventional photographs, so it wouldn't look like plastic or a varnish.

 

[donbga]

The idea of a gelatin overcoat is interesting, and it wouldn't be that hard to do. It could be a solution of 5-15% with an additive like thymol to prevent mold, and it would be applied warm. You could do it with a coating rod with a couple layers of tape around each end, to create a gap between the rod and the paper surface. It would add gloss and eliminate any gloss differential in the ink, and it is a material used in conventional photographs, so it wouldn't look like plastic or a varnish.

The gelatin over coat step doesn't turn me off since I'm used to sizing paper for gum printing. The thymol will definitely work as a preservative. I might even go so far as hardening the gelatin.

The part of the process that I'm not interested in is mixing my own inks. For me it's just another layer of process abstraction I'm not interested in doing.

I have a friend locally who prints beautiful B&W inkjets with her Epson 2200 using MIS inks on untreated Somerset Velvet. I'm sure they aren't as sharp as a coated paper but I really like her prints.

Don Bryant

 

[Kees]

The part of the process that I'm not interested in is mixing my own inks.
Don Bryant

Hi Don,
Mr. Mantinieri is not saying he is mixing his own inks, he only says he dilutes them. As he also has a Dead Link Removed to Paul Roarks 100% carbon method I think he is just using Roark's method with Mis Eboni black in various dilutions in an inkjetprinter. And he is printing on uncoated paper, that he washes afterwards. Finally he adds a gelatin protection layer on top. The name of this 'process' is somewhat misleading though. I would call it a gelatin coated (carbon) pigment inkjetprint.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The idea of mixing my own inkjet inks is actually quite appealing to me (not that I could do it with my HP B9180), but the thought of all the head clogging that would have to happen in the testing process seems nightmarish.

 

[donbga]

Mr. Mantinieri is not saying he is mixing his own inks, he only says he dilutes them. As he also has a Dead Link Removed to Paul Roarks 100% carbon method I think he is just using Roark's method with Mis Eboni black in various dilutions in an inkjetprinter.

Kees,

Diluting ink is tantamount to mixing ink and it implies filling or refilling ink carts, which is way off my radar. I think Paul has done a lot for ink jet printing but I don't purchase MIS products any longer as I think they are unreliable - inks, carts, and CIS.

And he is printing on uncoated paper, that he washes afterwards. Finally he adds a gelatin protection layer on top. The name of this 'process' is somewhat misleading though. I would call it a gelatin coated (carbon) pigment inkjetprint

I think all of these points were mentioned in the article Kees. As for the nomen of the process I have difficulty calling an inkjet print a carbon print as some do.

Don

 

[jag2x]

HI Don, A little off topic but have you tried the MIS ink for digital negatives?
Jacek

 

[donbga]

HI Don, A little off topic but have you tried the MIS ink for digital negatives?
Jack

Jacek,

Several years ago I tried the MIS VM ink set with Pictorico installed in an Epson 1160 and the ink wiped right off the substrate. I've never tried the MIS color inks so I can't comment about those.

My experiences with MIS products has been mixed and I'm guessing that others may report more positive results. For me using a 3800 with Epson inks works with out a hassle. It saves me time and wasted materials, IOW dollars.

I've thought over the years that a comprehensive testing of different inks, substrates, printers, and software, etc. would make a fascinating set of articles for the web or magazines but it would be an expensive and time consuming endeavor. If someone wants to supply me with materials and printers I would be willing to do that.

The good news is that we have an extensive brain trust right here on Hybrid Photo to help us answer these questions. Perhaps others will chime in.

Don

 

[pschwart]

Jacek,

Several years ago I tried the MIS VM ink set with Pictorico installed in an Epson 1160 and the ink wiped right off the substrate. I've never tried the MIS color inks so I can't comment about those.

My experiences with MIS products has been mixed and I'm guessing that others may report more positive results. For me using a 3800 with Epson inks works with out a hassle. It saves me time and wasted materials, IOW dollars.

I've thought over the years that a comprehensive testing of different inks, substrates, printers, and software, etc. would make a fascinating set of articles for the web or magazines but it would be an expensive and time consuming endeavor. If someone wants to supply me with materials and printers I would be willing to do that.

The good news is that we have an extensive brain trust right here on Hybrid Photo to help us answer these questions. Perhaps others will chime in.

Don

I use the R800/1800 inkset for digital negatives, but have used only MIS
monochrome inks for B&W prints for years. I currently use UTR2 in an R200 (Epson driver), and UT3 in an R1800 (QTR profiles). Eboni is great stuff. It is pure carbon so creating a full set of inks with various dilutions yields prints that are too warm for my taste, but I have also used Eboni to pigment gelatin for carbon transfer prints with very good results.