Carbon final support paper

chrobry · Jul 25, 2007

I am quite new for carbon printing. Just this weeknd got first prints of good quality. I am using old photo paper as a final support as suggested in Sandy King's book and in the B&S printing tissue booklet. What I am not sure is if all photo papers will work. There was something about supercoating, I am not sure what it is. In other words: do I need to buy more of old paper or I can use modern paper? Any help highly appreciated,

regards,

Jan

rongui · Jul 25, 2007

Fixed and washed photographic papers work well with carbon printing except that some printers find that Oriental brand papers will have fog ( residual pigment left on the print after processing). Yupo also works well.

You might want to do some searches at:

http://spitbite.org/carbon/list.html

or goto http://www.carbonprinting.com/

Hope this helps,
Ron Guidry

z-man · Jul 26, 2007

non super coated photo print papaper

rongui said:
Fixed and washed photographic papers work well with carbon printing except that some printers find that Oriental brand papers will have fog ( residual pigment left on the print after processing). Yupo also works well.

You might want to do some searches at:

http://spitbite.org/carbon/list.html

or goto http://www.carbonprinting.com/

Hope this helps,
Ron Guidry

kentmere makes non-supercoated paper-in us luminos rebrands the kentmere--freestyle carries kentmere and sells for carbon-carbro

vaya con dios

rongui · Jul 26, 2007

Supercoated papers will work for Carbon Printing

"What I am not sure is if all photo papers will work. There was something about supercoating...."

Supercoated papers will work with the carbon process but is more difficult to use with Carbro process. For Carbro, it is best to use non-supercoated papers.

I have used fixed out expired silver gelatin papers (papers were about 14 years old) for carbon process and had no problems with the tissue not sticking.

Ron

chrobry · Jul 26, 2007

Thanks a lot. I am not sure what is supercoating - could you explain, please. Is it someting new or is in use for many years?

regards,

Jan

rongui · Jul 26, 2007

chrobry said:
Thanks a lot. I am not sure what is supercoating - could you explain, please. Is it someting new or is in use for many years?

regards,

Jan

Supercoating on papers have been used for years now.

Basically the fiber based papers were coated with baryta (barium sulphate), then the emulsion, and then a thin coat of a hard or hardened gelatin.

This thin coat of hardened gelatin is known as the "supercoat".

The reason for the supercoat was to protect the emulsion layer while the paper was processed, washed, and dried.

Photographic films are also "supercoated".

The carbon image will stick to supercoated papers.

Good luck with your carbon printing,

Ron

Vaughn · Jul 26, 2007

Most photopapers should work. I am the carbon printer that had the bad luck with the Oriental paper -- I bought some lower grades 16x20 on sale. It took me a year to finally figure out what was causing my fogging...it was driving me nuts (I had assumed it had something to do with the pigments I was using). Finally accidently used a sheet of Ilford paper -- and had no fog!

I used some old Kodak Elite photopaper once -- after fixing, it still had a bit of yellowing to it. I haven't tried it yet, but supposively using Farmer's Reducer on it instead of just fixer might get rid of the yellow. But actually I did not mind the yellowing -- it seems to be stable and gave an extra kick of warmth to the carbon print. Elite is a nice heavier weight, also.

PS...the trick with carbon printing is too find someone to GIVE you their old out-of-date paper!

Vaughn

PS#2...are you going to post any images of your recent carbon prints?!

chrobry · Jul 26, 2007

Thanks a lot for explaining it to me. I was wondering if I need to get expired paper which would not be supercoated or I could use new one. I anyhow have some of the expired 30 years old Polish Fotonbrom paper which I am using for lithprinting as sometimes expired paper gives excellent results with lith. So far I was using this paper for carbon too but I do not want to use it to the end for carbon support so it is time to get some new paper.

Vaughn, I will post some images here and will also have them on my web site but I just did not have time to scan. We have monsoon season now here in Arizona and I want to spend all my free time to photograph coulds.

very best,

Jan

Vaughn · Jul 26, 2007

Jan, have fun chasing clouds! I'll be getting some carbon printing in this evening.

And I invite you to visit the carbon forum when you have some time to spare! We are just getting started over there.

http://www.carbonprinting.com/forum/index.php

Vaughn

chrobry · Jul 26, 2007

Thank you very much, Vaughn, most kind of you.

cheers,

Jan

sanking · Jul 27, 2007

chrobry said:
Thanks a lot for explaining it to me. I was wondering if I need to get expired paper which would not be supercoated or I could use new one. I anyhow have some of the expired 30 years old Polish Fotonbrom paper which I am using for lithprinting as sometimes expired paper gives excellent results with lith. So far I was using this paper for carbon too but I do not want to use it to the end for carbon support so it is time to get some new paper.

Jan

Old expired paper is fine for single transfer carbon printing. Fiber based or RC will work. The exact look you get in terms of relief, sheen, etc. varies a lot according to both paper and carbon tissue. I personally like the look of single tranfer prints on a hard surface semi-matte type paper like Ilfobrom semi-matte. Prints on RC surface can also have a very distinctive relief appearance. You can also use synthetic papers like Yupo.

For double transfer carbon, where you first develop on a plastic support and then transfer to a final paper support, non super-coated papers work much better than super-coated papers since the gelatin will expand much more. Problem is, very few such papers are still made. Kentemere made a beautiful paper that was sold by Luminos as Doc-Art, but it is no longer made.

Sandy

rongui · Jul 27, 2007

sanking said:
For double transfer carbon, where you first develop on a plastic support and then transfer to a final paper support, non super-coated papers work much better than super-coated papers since the gelatin will expand much more. Problem is, very few such papers are still made. Kentemere made a beautiful paper that was sold by Luminos as Doc-Art, but it is no longer made.

Sandy

Just to add onto what Sandy said, Centennial POP paper is made by Kentemere and has no supercoating. It is available from The Chicago Albumen Works as well as Bostick and Sullivan.

Ron

chrobry · Jul 27, 2007

Thank you very much, Sandy. I really appreciate your input and also your book on carbon printing which is my guide to the process.
kind regards,

Jan

chrobry · Jul 28, 2007

Vaughn said:
PS#2...are you going to post any images of your recent carbon prints?!

Vaughn,
I uploaded two of recent carbon prints to the gallery. I did my best scanning but I am not very good. Real prints have nicer more somooth tonality which I could not reproduce. Either I was getting too much contrast or images were not sharp. I also could not scan well my kallitype I also uploaded. There is this paper texture visible which makes the image not smooth. Anyway, it is another story...

regards,

Jan

z-man · Jul 30, 2007

what about------

rongui said:
Just to add onto what Sandy said, Centennial POP paper is made by Kentemere and has no supercoating. It is available from The Chicago Albumen Works as well as Bostick and Sullivan.

Ron

gelatine coated water color paper

" " mylar

tyvek for printing trade--used to require special inks BUT since it was what we used way back in the day for transfer support it should be in your bag of tricks anyway--ask sandy--he will know

it seems to me that if you pay as much money as centenial pop costs you should use it for the silver image it was made to give you

ANY INKJET PHOTO PAPER--to me this is rc photo paper without the silver

the high $ water color paper for ink jet is still cheaper than yuppo---canson makes many different surfaces--again--ask sandy

vaya con dios

Carbon final support paper

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