Carbon final support paper

[chrobry]

I am quite new for carbon printing. Just this weeknd got first prints of good quality. I am using old photo paper as a final support as suggested in Sandy King's book and in the B&S printing tissue booklet. What I am not sure is if all photo papers will work. There was something about supercoating, I am not sure what it is. In other words: do I need to buy more of old paper or I can use modern paper? Any help highly appreciated,

regards,

Jan

 

[rongui]

Fixed and washed photographic papers work well with carbon printing except that some printers find that Oriental brand papers will have fog ( residual pigment left on the print after processing). Yupo also works well.


You might want to do some searches at:

http://spitbite.org/carbon/list.html

or goto http://www.carbonprinting.com/


Hope this helps,
Ron Guidry

 

[z-man]

non super coated photo print papaper

Fixed and washed photographic papers work well with carbon printing except that some printers find that Oriental brand papers will have fog ( residual pigment left on the print after processing). Yupo also works well.


You might want to do some searches at:

http://spitbite.org/carbon/list.html

or goto http://www.carbonprinting.com/


Hope this helps,
Ron Guidry

kentmere makes non-supercoated paper-in us luminos rebrands the kentmere--freestyle carries kentmere and sells for carbon-carbro

vaya con dios

 

[rongui]

Supercoated papers will work for Carbon Printing

"What I am not sure is if all photo papers will work. There was something about supercoating...."

Supercoated papers will work with the carbon process but is more difficult to use with Carbro process. For Carbro, it is best to use non-supercoated papers.

I have used fixed out expired silver gelatin papers (papers were about 14 years old) for carbon process and had no problems with the tissue not sticking.


Ron

 

[chrobry]

Thanks a lot. I am not sure what is supercoating - could you explain, please. Is it someting new or is in use for many years?

regards,

Jan

 

[rongui]

Thanks a lot. I am not sure what is supercoating - could you explain, please. Is it someting new or is in use for many years?

regards,

Jan

Supercoating on papers have been used for years now.

Basically the fiber based papers were coated with baryta (barium sulphate), then the emulsion, and then a thin coat of a hard or hardened gelatin.

This thin coat of hardened gelatin is known as the "supercoat".

The reason for the supercoat was to protect the emulsion layer while the paper was processed, washed, and dried.

Photographic films are also "supercoated".

The carbon image will stick to supercoated papers.

Good luck with your carbon printing,

Ron

 

[Vaughn]

Most photopapers should work. I am the carbon printer that had the bad luck with the Oriental paper -- I bought some lower grades 16x20 on sale. It took me a year to finally figure out what was causing my fogging...it was driving me nuts (I had assumed it had something to do with the pigments I was using). Finally accidently used a sheet of Ilford paper -- and had no fog!

I used some old Kodak Elite photopaper once -- after fixing, it still had a bit of yellowing to it. I haven't tried it yet, but supposively using Farmer's Reducer on it instead of just fixer might get rid of the yellow. But actually I did not mind the yellowing -- it seems to be stable and gave an extra kick of warmth to the carbon print. Elite is a nice heavier weight, also.

PS...the trick with carbon printing is too find someone to GIVE you their old out-of-date paper!

Vaughn

PS#2...are you going to post any images of your recent carbon prints?!

 

[chrobry]

Thanks a lot for explaining it to me. I was wondering if I need to get expired paper which would not be supercoated or I could use new one. I anyhow have some of the expired 30 years old Polish Fotonbrom paper which I am using for lithprinting as sometimes expired paper gives excellent results with lith. So far I was using this paper for carbon too but I do not want to use it to the end for carbon support so it is time to get some new paper.

Vaughn, I will post some images here and will also have them on my web site but I just did not have time to scan. We have monsoon season now here in Arizona and I want to spend all my free time to photograph coulds.

very best,

Jan

 

[Vaughn]

Jan, have fun chasing clouds! I'll be getting some carbon printing in this evening.

And I invite you to visit the carbon forum when you have some time to spare! We are just getting started over there.

http://www.carbonprinting.com/forum/index.php

Vaughn

 

[chrobry]

Thank you very much, Vaughn, most kind of you.

cheers,


Jan

 

[sanking]

Thanks a lot for explaining it to me. I was wondering if I need to get expired paper which would not be supercoated or I could use new one. I anyhow have some of the expired 30 years old Polish Fotonbrom paper which I am using for lithprinting as sometimes expired paper gives excellent results with lith. So far I was using this paper for carbon too but I do not want to use it to the end for carbon support so it is time to get some new paper.


Jan

Old expired paper is fine for single transfer carbon printing. Fiber based or RC will work. The exact look you get in terms of relief, sheen, etc. varies a lot according to both paper and carbon tissue. I personally like the look of single tranfer prints on a hard surface semi-matte type paper like Ilfobrom semi-matte. Prints on RC surface can also have a very distinctive relief appearance. You can also use synthetic papers like Yupo.

For double transfer carbon, where you first develop on a plastic support and then transfer to a final paper support, non super-coated papers work much better than super-coated papers since the gelatin will expand much more. Problem is, very few such papers are still made. Kentemere made a beautiful paper that was sold by Luminos as Doc-Art, but it is no longer made.

Sandy

 

[rongui]

For double transfer carbon, where you first develop on a plastic support and then transfer to a final paper support, non super-coated papers work much better than super-coated papers since the gelatin will expand much more. Problem is, very few such papers are still made. Kentemere made a beautiful paper that was sold by Luminos as Doc-Art, but it is no longer made.

Sandy

Just to add onto what Sandy said, Centennial POP paper is made by Kentemere and has no supercoating. It is available from The Chicago Albumen Works as well as Bostick and Sullivan.

Ron

 

[chrobry]

Thank you very much, Sandy. I really appreciate your input and also your book on carbon printing which is my guide to the process.
kind regards,

Jan

 

[chrobry]

PS#2...are you going to post any images of your recent carbon prints?!

Vaughn,
I uploaded two of recent carbon prints to the gallery. I did my best scanning but I am not very good. Real prints have nicer more somooth tonality which I could not reproduce. Either I was getting too much contrast or images were not sharp. I also could not scan well my kallitype I also uploaded. There is this paper texture visible which makes the image not smooth. Anyway, it is another story...

regards,

Jan

 

[z-man]

what about------

Just to add onto what Sandy said, Centennial POP paper is made by Kentemere and has no supercoating. It is available from The Chicago Albumen Works as well as Bostick and Sullivan.

Ron

gelatine coated water color paper

" " mylar

tyvek for printing trade--used to require special inks BUT since it was what we used way back in the day for transfer support it should be in your bag of tricks anyway--ask sandy--he will know

it seems to me that if you pay as much money as centenial pop costs you should use it for the silver image it was made to give you

ANY INKJET PHOTO PAPER--to me this is rc photo paper without the silver

the high $ water color paper for ink jet is still cheaper than yuppo---canson makes many different surfaces--again--ask sandy

vaya con dios

 

[UrabobPrinting]

In one of calvin griers videos, he uses hanenmühle fine art pearl Paper right out of the box. Do you know how this works and do you have any substitutes for the hanenmühle paper as it is hard to find

 

[koraks]

I tried this with another type of Hahnemühle paper. The transfer worked (it usually does with inkjet paper), but I print with DAS instead of dichromate and found the stain to be absolutely impossible to get rid of even with prolonged and repeated treatment with permanganate. I did not try the exact paper Calvin uses/recommends as I didn't feel like spending big $$$ on inkjet paper for this purpose.

For testing, transfers to e.g. inkjet paper or yupo work fine. For 'finished work' I personally really prefer a more 'natural' paper, like an etching paper sized with gelatin. I've also used silver gelatin FB/baryta paper on occasion, but generally find the result too 'technical' to my taste and prefer the more natural, pronounced texture of self-sized papers.

PS a potential problem with inkjet RC papers is millions of microbubbles. It can help to squeegee the paper underwater directly before the transfer. Of course these papers will only work with a single transfer process. Inkjet baryta papers may work with a double transfer process but I've not tried that route. I doubt they'll work well though unless you heavily size them with gelatin since there's no gelatin layer on inkjet baryta papers to swell and accommodate the image relief.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Or you could always just grab some cheaper water colourpaper, like Canson XL, and acrylic size it...

 

[MTGseattle]

This is mere curiosity; I thought the point of Yupo was as an intermediate(transfer) layer due to its durability? Have a couple of you found it to give a nice look as your final support?

 

[koraks]

I thought the point of Yupo was as an intermediate(transfer) layer due to its durability?

No, it's not useful as an intermediate support because it's non-permeable. It's widely used as a tissue base; that's probably what you're thinking of. Some people (but not many AFAIK) like it as a final support as well because it's a very clean, technical and homogeneous surface with a subtle luster. It renders detail phenomenally well and texture/relief also stands out readily. I find it far too clinical to my taste, but it's a dependable surface to make test transfers to - although I have to admit I mostly used gelatin-sized PE or PP sheets instead for that purpose, most of the time.

 

[UrabobPrinting]

Hello Andy, I've been following along with your carbon transfer guide and i've had some successful prints using acrylic sizing but, the adhesion isn't that good for me so i'm looking for alternatives. Also i'm printing using Ferric Ammonium Citrate because I live in the EU and it doesn't stain.