Capacitor issues with long term storage without batteries?

[Sharktooth]

I've been in the habit of removing batteries from all my cameras after use. I do that to avoid battery leakage damage, since I have too many cameras that I rarely use (who woulda thunk).

This habit has served me well, for the most part, but I've recently discovered an unexpected downside.

It appears that some of the electronics in cameras does not like to remain unpowered for long periods of time (years). I suspect it may be the capacitors. I say this, since I've had three recent cases where the metering system was wonky after installing fresh batteries on a camera that was stored for long periods without batteries. They were a Minolta XE-7, Minolta XD-11, and an Olympus OM-4. After installing the batteries the meter system was very unstable, and the camera just wouldn't work properly. If I leave the batteries in the camera, in the "on" position overnight, then they all worked fine the next morning.

My suspicion is that the capacitors need some time to refresh themselves after long periods of dormancy, so leaving the camera powered overnight helped to do that.

Has anyone else had the same experience? Does anyone have a better explanation about what might be happening?

 

[xkaes]

I know that some capacitors "wear out" just due to age alone, but I've not heard that for the XE-7 or XD-11.

I'm sure some electrically-inclined members will have some thoughts.

 

[albada]

I had the same experience two days ago with an electronic flash unit made around 1985 that had sat unused for years. At first, it took a long time to charge its main capacitor, but after being charged and discharged a few times, it was fine and would recharge in a few seconds. I've heard this called "forming a capacitor".

Electrolytic capacitors can also dry out. In Minolta X-series cameras, the symptom is the shutter won't fire. In flash units, as parts of the capacitor short out, you hear loud POPs that you'll never forget. Don't ask me how I know...

 

[Sharktooth]

I had the same experience two days ago with an electronic flash unit made around 1985 that had sat unused for years. At first, it took a long time to charge its main capacitor, but after being charged and discharged a few times, it was fine and would recharge in a few seconds. I've heard this called "forming a capacitor".

Electrolytic capacitors can also dry out. In Minolta X-series cameras, the symptom is the shutter won't fire. In flash units, as parts of the capacitor short out, you hear loud POPs that you'll never forget. Don't ask me how I know...

I try to charge up my flash units every 6 months or so for the same reason. That's what got me thinking that the camera metering issue may be due to the capacitors. If a flash capacitor needs to be reformed, then maybe a camera capacitor needs to be reformed too. I'm not an electronics wiz, so maybe there's a better explanation.

 

[Terryro]

I've been in the habit of removing batteries from all my cameras after use. I do that to avoid battery leakage damage, since I have too many cameras that I rarely use (who woulda thunk).

This habit has served me well, for the most part, but I've recently discovered an unexpected downside.

It appears that some of the electronics in cameras does not like to remain unpowered for long periods of time (years). I suspect it may be the capacitors. I say this, since I've had three recent cases where the metering system was wonky after installing fresh batteries on a camera that was stored for long periods without batteries. They were a Minolta XE-7, Minolta XD-11, and an Olympus OM-4. After installing the batteries the meter system was very unstable, and the camera just wouldn't work properly. If I leave the batteries in the camera, in the "on" position overnight, then they all worked fine the next morning.

My suspicion is that the capacitors need some time to refresh themselves after long periods of dormancy, so leaving the camera powered overnight helped to do that.

Has anyone else had the same experience? Does anyone have a better explanation about what might be happening?

Good info. I've had the same experience for flash units that have had long periods of non use. Not for cameras, though. I have OM-4's that receive little use and I remove batteries as well. I'll have to check that out. Thanks

 

[ags2mikon]

My experience with capacitors in 2 way radios is that they are like milk, they have an expiration date. Its just not printed on the cap or the radio. When one of the radios failed generally a few months later another group of radios would fail. Sometimes a spare radio that had never been installed and in the parts room would also be dead too. Strangely the rest of them were pulled and a new fleet wide system was installed and some of the old ones were working 10 years later. Many times the electrolytic capacitors would leak and ruin the boards they were mounted on.

 

[AgX]

Forming applies on any electrolytic capacitator.

The issue of degraded capacitators is mostly described with high voltage, high capacity capacitators in mind (flash or rectifiyer capacitators).

But basically it applies on any electrolytic capacitator, and thus on any cicuit. The trouble starts when the capacitator does not yield after some time characterisctics again within its tolerance. Or if the circuit cannot withstand its leak current appearing directly after switching on a circuit after long time of idleness.

 

[Sharktooth]

I guess the main takeaway from this is to not assume your old electronic camera is dead or malfunctioning until you've left it running with good batteries for about a day. This might serve to stabilize the capacitors or other electronic components. That was my experience. I discovered that my cameras were perfectly fine after doing this. Until I did that I was preparing to send them to ewaste, so this is an easy thing to try.

 

[BobUK]

I try out my flashguns every few months, but never gave a thought about trying cameras as well.
The troublesome capacitors are most probably the big electrolytics, though there is nothing to be lost by running a dummy film through unused cameras with batteries in.

Thank you for the prompt.

 

[xkaes]

I try out my flashguns every few months, but never gave a thought about trying cameras as well.
The troublesome capacitors are most probably the big electrolytics, though there is nothing to be lost by running a dummy film through unused cameras with batteries in.

Thank you for the prompt.

Why use film at all -- unless the camera won't work without it?

 

[BobUK]

Why use film at all -- unless the camera won't work without it?

I have an Olympus OM2n.
It has a clever metering system. Two systems in fact. One conventional in the viewfinder and the other off the film itself.
If the light changes on long exposures with the mirror up the reading is compensated by the system that uses the film plane to read from.
It's very ingenious.

 

[BobUK]

For the sake of completeness about the OM2n metering, there are three modes, AUTO, MANUAL and OFF. The first two function modes are obvious, but the OFF mode will still meter and get a good grab shot using a reduced range of speeds. I think the maximum is 1/30 sec to save on battery life.


Spelling edited. Bob.

 

[M-88]

I have an Olympus OM2n.
It has a clever metering system. Two systems in fact. One conventional in the viewfinder and the other off the film itself.
If the light changes on long exposures with the mirror up the reading is compensated by the system that uses the film plane to read from.
It's very ingenious.

And it goes up to 240 seconds, according to the manual. Pentax LX goes up to 45 minutes IIRC, but it's not OTF, I think.

Of all the OM bodies, OM-2n was the most pleasant one to me.

 

[Duceman]

I've been in the habit of removing batteries from all my cameras after use. I do that to avoid battery leakage damage, since I have too many cameras that I rarely use (who woulda thunk).

This habit has served me well, for the most part, but I've recently discovered an unexpected downside.

It appears that some of the electronics in cameras does not like to remain unpowered for long periods of time (years). I suspect it may be the capacitors. I say this, since I've had three recent cases where the metering system was wonky after installing fresh batteries on a camera that was stored for long periods without batteries. They were a Minolta XE-7, Minolta XD-11, and an Olympus OM-4. After installing the batteries the meter system was very unstable, and the camera just wouldn't work properly. If I leave the batteries in the camera, in the "on" position overnight, then they all worked fine the next morning.

My suspicion is that the capacitors need some time to refresh themselves after long periods of dormancy, so leaving the camera powered overnight helped to do that.

Has anyone else had the same experience? Does anyone have a better explanation about what might be happening?

Just picked up a nice Minolta XE-7. Near pristine condition. Previous owner had (thankfully) removed the batteries. Came with a camera bag that had an unused roll of Kodak film that expired in 1999, so I'm assuming that the camera had not been powered up in that last 25 years or so. Put in batteries, and while the camera powered up, the metering was wonky. It seems, though, that having left the camera overnight with batteries in it, even in the "off" position, the issue has cured itself.