Can't Load 120 film even if my life depended on it!

[mwdake]

All the responses you received so far are very good especially with regards to making sure the Paterson reels are very clean and dry and the problems related to using a changing bag.

If you are having trouble getting the film started on the reel and it takes too long this will add to your frustration and the humidity build up.

Here is a simple trick to get the film started on the reel.
It gives the stiffness and guide to get the roll started in to the flanges...

Cut a piece of the film box to be the same width as 120 film and about 2 or 3 inches long.

Before you go in the darkroom, or changing bag, slide this piece of card along the reel tracks into the beginning of the reel but not past the little ball bearings. Now when in the darkroom take your film and slide it along the card until it is past the ball bearings and pull in a bit more then remove the card and load in the normal way. You see the card acts like a guide and makes those springy films easier to get started.

I most often reverse curl the first 1/2 inch or so of my film before loading to help with the springiness.
I still have the same bit of card I cut out of a Fuji box a couple of years ago, I only replace it if it gets lost or too banged up.


Don't give up on Paterson reels, I have used them for 40 years or more and never had problems with 120 film I have plenty of reels so I always have dry ones and after each development job I give the flanges a scrub with hot water and an old toothbrush. I have stainless reels too and I can load them without too much trouble but I learnt on Paterson reels so stuck with them.

 

[laroygreen]

Thanks mwdake. I tried a lot of the recommendations found on the forum, and as I mentioned, they all work but don't fix the problem completely. Never tried this one before though, and did a quick test with my eyes closed and it seems to be a lot better now! I also incorporated all the other things mentioned here. Speaks volumes about the design of these in that you need to mod it to work and for something designed to be submerged, it does not tolerate water well (mine is bone dry and clean btw!).

Will the paper scratch my emulsion (not a big issue going forward, I'll just leave the first frame blank)?

I won't know if it works for sure until I try to develop a few rolls so I will see if I can load up a few rolls and unfreeze my chemistry before bedtime ... I'll let everyone know if it works.

 

[pentaxuser]

You might want to try a Durst 120 tank with loader which is essential for it but both items should be sold together by a retailer or e-bayer. No point in keeping the loader without the tank or vice versa.

It is a plastic reel but the loader winds the film into the centre and under a sprung holder and then turning the reel winds the film from the centre towards the outer edges like a stainless steel reel. The film leader is automatically led to the sprung holder in the centre and you simply lift the holder with a finger or thumb and push the leader in. No further skill required

I do this in a darkroom and not a changing bag but the great thing about it is that sweaty slippery hands should not affect things i.e. it does not require manual dexterity and dry hands.

As an added bonus it uses only 450mls of liquid so probably the most economical tank for 120 there is and it has proved to be the most leak proof tank I have ever used.

pentaxuser

 

[winger]

I can load plastic 35mm reels in about a minute for 36 exposures. I could not load 120 on plastic in 10 minutes. I got a Hewes reel, watched the JBrunner video I found through his website, and now I can do 120 almost as fast as 35mm. I think you might have better luck with either type in a changing tent, rather than a bag, but I do recommend the Hewes reels.

 

[mwdake]

Will the paper scratch my emulsion (not a big issue going forward, I'll just leave the first frame blank)?

No, it won't scratch your emulsion, at least not on the part with the first frames.
Just leave the piece of card in the reel until you have the first several inches of film securely in the reel, then remove the card.
I think it might help you get the film started more quickly thereby reducing the amount of time you struggle and build up humidity in your bag.

Don't get frustrated as Paterson reels will work, good quality stainless reels like Hewes or Nikkor will work. It just takes practice and patience.
I can load a 120 reel in about a minute or two but I still struggle with 35mm when it is a 36 exposure, I hardly ever use 35mm so I don't worry about it.

 

[ToddB]

The first is bending back the leading edge of the film at around a quarter inch from the end


above is what I do, bending back leader, then with you thumb and middle finger holder the film while depressing film down with pointer finger. That will further keep it from curling on you. Gently find the start of the entry point of the reel and push the film in. When you fell that the film is in past the ball bearings gently pull the fim a little bit with oposite hand to get it started and the end with feeding motion. I have a swamp cooler in my house here in the southwest and it cool based on humidity. Never had an issue loading in a timely manner with this technique. Can spool a roll in less than a minute. Hope this helps.

 

[BobinGV]

+1 for the Arista reels, and a suggestion for the changing bag.
Try building a frame from 1/2 inch PVC for inside the bag. This makes things much easier since you're not fighting the bag all the time.

 

[seadrive]

Plastic and humidity is a combination that is guaranteed to send you right off the deep end.

If you plan on doing a lot of 120, I can't recommend Hewes reels highly enough. Once you get the knack for pulling the film to the right just enough so that it drops over the rail above the clip (then push down on the clip and feed the film back to the left, over the clip), loading 120 reels becomes pretty easy. The SS reels don't care how humid it is, and if you don't go out of your way to bend them, they'll last you forever.

 

[pbromaghin]

I just switched to Stainless a couple weeks ago. For 35mm it is still harder than plastic for me, but 120 is much easier.

 

[David Grenet]

Plastic and humidity is a combination that is guaranteed to send you right off the deep end.

This. I once spent half an hour trying to get a roll of 120 on a reel in a changing tent on a humid afternoon. I tried three different reels without success. The next evening I went and used a darkroom that was air conditioned and it went on in 30 seconds.

 

[one90guy]

I use Paterson reels myself, 120 usually is quick and easy but 35 gives me fits. Till I got a little dark room I used a large changing bag, hated that thing, nothing was easy for me.

David

 

[StoneNYC]

Usually I read all the comments but I didn't...

However, just get the samigon platic reels, also called Rokunar brand

They are MUCH better and the only way to go...

They have a much better loading tongue that makes it super easy to load...

Hope that helps...

Also this link SHOULD work...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122989-REG/Samigon_ESA325_Multi_Format_Autofeed_Reel.html




~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[laroygreen]

Thanks guys! I think I may have an interim solution (may still get a Samigon and a SS reel to try it out as well). I followed mwdake suggestion, but in doing so I realize that the ball bearings are the real issue (they are completely clean on all 3 reels I own) as they seem to stick especially when it gets a small amount of resistance - which causes kinks; so I use the paper trick mwdake mentioned, but then I also slightly pinch the film and instead of ratcheting the film on the reel, I keep pushing it all the way. Now I can get it loaded in less than a minute consistently and I was able to develop a few rolls in a 30 minute period (which was my goal). Thanks so much again everyone for the recommendation, and I am happy (misery loves company) that I am not the only one that had issues with these hateful things

 

[revdocjim]

Once you get the hang of SS reels for 120 I suspect you might stick with them. I think Patterson style plastic reels are better for 35mm. I find that I struggle with 35mm on stainless steel reels but 120 is always a piece of cake!

 

[StoneNYC]

Thanks guys! I think I may have an interim solution (may still get a Samigon and a SS reel to try it out as well). I followed mwdake suggestion, but in doing so I realize that the ball bearings are the real issue (they are completely clean on all 3 reels I own) as they seem to stick especially when it gets a small amount of resistance - which causes kinks; so I use the paper trick mwdake mentioned, but then I also slightly pinch the film and instead of ratcheting the film on the reel, I keep pushing it all the way. Now I can get it loaded in less than a minute consistently and I was able to develop a few rolls in a 30 minute period (which was my goal). Thanks so much again everyone for the recommendation, and I am happy (misery loves company) that I am not the only one that had issues with these hateful things

I suspect once you use the samigon reels you'll never look back

SS reels are a problem because you run the risk of skipping tracks and film touching itself causing it not to develop the touching area. The only SS I use is for 70mm at 15 feet, but that's really the only solution I've found so that's why I use SS for 70mm.

The self loading reels wil ALWAYS have a little issue with the Ball bearings, because its plastic on metal, I've noticed if I just do a little pushing on (you can do this with the samigon, not sure you can with Paterson/Jobo) the tongue enough that the ball bearing comes loose and rattles then release the pressure and just doing that seems to make sure that the film doesn't stick. Also remember to keep one side upright so the tongue is almost at the top, and only rotate the other side. (For me I load with the film facing me, so I turn the right side and keep the left side still).

Also don't be in a rush to "finish in a minute" treat the film like a lady, give her the time she needs to get loaded properly without any damage haha

Good luck!


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GRHazelton]

Kudos to those who can load in a changing bag! I reserve mine for emergencies, using instead a bathroom at night. A towel at the bottom of the door and strict injunctions about household members turning on lights does the job. I've found that if after 5 or 10 minutes I can't see my hand its dark enough. A few tiny pinpricks of light don't seem to matter, I position my body between them and the light. The film, reels, tank, lid, etc. go in an 11x14 developing tray. You don't want to search for the tank lid on the floor in the dark!

I use Paterson for 120 after a horrid experience trying SS. I might try again using some of the tricks above.

For whatever reason my mojo for SS reel loading seems to have fled. Years ago they were all I used for 35mm, even Ektachromes from a European trip. Now I can't seem to load them, even the exact same reels I used back in the day. Go figure! Paterson reels work fine for me, I do run them through the dishwasher periodically, top rack.

 

[StoneNYC]

Kudos to those who can load in a changing bag! I reserve mine for emergencies, using instead a bathroom at night. A towel at the bottom of the door and strict injunctions about household members turning on lights does the job. I've found that if after 5 or 10 minutes I can't see my hand its dark enough. A few tiny pinpricks of light don't seem to matter, I position my body between them and the light. The film, reels, tank, lid, etc. go in an 11x14 developing tray. You don't want to search for the tank lid on the floor in the dark!

I use Paterson for 120 after a horrid experience trying SS. I might try again using some of the tricks above.

For whatever reason my mojo for SS reel loading seems to have fled. Years ago they were all I used for 35mm, even Ektachromes from a European trip. Now I can't seem to load them, even the exact same reels I used back in the day. Go figure! Paterson reels work fine for me, I do run them through the dishwasher periodically, top rack.

Ahh 10 minutes! That's a long time to wait, I don't mind the changing bag, then again it's all I've ever used...

I CAN use the Paterson reels, I use only Paterson tanks and have a 2,3, and 5 reel tank so I have a lot of unused reels, I keep them as filler (so the reels don't slide if I only do one roll in a 2 reel tank for example) and I accidentally threw one in the changing bag and had already unrolled the film when I realized the error, I was like NOOOOOO!!!! But with some struggling I managed to get the film in, but it was certainly MUCH more difficult than with the samigon. I don't know why the other companies don't use that type of feeder, it's awesome!


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[k.hendrik]

Use pencil lead or wash from time to time your spirals in "Steradent" against the lime. Clip the "start" corners of your film, about 2 á 3 mm 45<,
pull the film over the 'balls' > start rotating the wheels(don't push!!) 2 minutes work good luck

 

[StoneNYC]

Use pencil lead or wash from time to time your spirals in "Steradent" against the lime. Clip the "start" corners of your film, about 2 á 3 mm 45 start rotating the wheels(don't push!!) 2 minutes work good luck

What does "Use pencil lead or wash from time to time your spirals in "Steradent" against the lime." Mean, that entire sentence makes absolutely no sense to me...

Why are you using pencil lead? And where are you putting it? And what's Steradent and where the heck are you getting lime from?

I'm honestly totally confused...


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MattKing]

What does "Use pencil lead or wash from time to time your spirals in "Steradent" against the lime." Mean, that entire sentence makes absolutely no sense to me...

Why are you using pencil lead? And where are you putting it? And what's Steradent and where the heck are you getting lime from?

I'm honestly totally confused...


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

We know :devil:.

A "lead" pencil actually is mostly graphite - an excellent dry lubricant.

And Steradent appears to be denture cleaner.

And if I had to guess, "lime" probably refers to a build up of "crud".

 

[Argenticien]

+1 to those Paterson-like (Samigon or whatever) plastic reels mentioned above. I got mine in a kit (2 reels + tank) from Freestyle a few years ago. They've worked brilliantly for 120. I think Freestyle described them as admittedly Paterson knock-offs; I wondered what I was getting into by being a cheapskate. So it's fun to read now that I'm not the only one finding them better than the Paterson originals!

Tip: I've found if developing two rolls of 120 (needing same developing process, obviously), taping the two together does not work well, and applying tape is needlessly difficult. I load one roll entirely and ensure its trailing end is free of the ball-bearings. Then I simply push it (via a fingertip pushing the trailing edge) all the way in to the center of the roll. Then load the second roll as normal.

My only trouble with these plastic reels has been not with 120 but with super-curly 35mm films (Efke mostly; peace be upon them) or similarly with usually compliant 35mm films (e.g., most Ilford ones) if they've been tightly wound backwards about a camera's take-up spool for months because I took forever finishing a roll.

I should say my entire experience is with loading in a darkened closet at night. My first changing bag is on order right now so that I can do loads/unloads in the daytime if needed. (I'm about to get into 4x5.)

--Dave

 

[StoneNYC]

We know :devil:.

A "lead" pencil actually is mostly graphite - an excellent dry lubricant.

And Steradent appears to be denture cleaner.

And if I had to guess, "lime" probably refers to a build up of "crud".

I thought the OP said they were NEW reels. No crud, it's the getting them into the reel that's the difficult part...

Good to know about the graphite (I did know lead wasn't lead anymore).

I thought it was bad news to use regular water and that it should be heavily filtered (which is what I do) or be distilled, so I wouldn't think lime would EVER be a problem. Also I have city water and we don't have lime... Lol


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Whether you use Ss or plastic it helps to practice with a throwaway roll. This will allow you to see what you are doing wrong. Dump the changing bag and load your film in a room that can be made dark. I suspect that part of your problem is from moisture from your hands.

SS reels ARE easy to load. Again the key is to practice., first with your eyes open and then, when you become more confident, with your eyes closed.

With plastic reels it is very important that they be kept scrupulously clean. A product like CLR may be helpful to remove calcium buildup. I worry about the pencil lead trick and graphite particles getting on the emulsion.

 

[AgX]

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/55043-Arista-Premium-Plastic-Developing-Reel

Those Arista Premium reels are available under a number of names. In my case, they came branded as "AP". It may be that the Samigon reels you are referring to are the same as the Arista Premium/AP reels.

AP Photo is the manufacturer of these.

 

[StoneNYC]

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/55043-Arista-Premium-Plastic-Developing-Reel



AP Photo is the manufacturer of these.

I doubt they actually make them, probably rebranded, but damn those are a good price, might pick up a few extras


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk