Canon Pellix mirror?

[f/16]

If there's dust or imperfections on the mirror will they show up in the pics or will they be out of focus so bad that they won't show up?

 

[Chan Tran]

If there's dust or imperfections on the mirror will they show up in the pics or will they be out of focus so bad that they won't show up?

They should be sufficiently out of focus to show up but the dust can still degrade image quality.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What he said. Use compressed air or a air bulb to blow off the dirt. Do not use a brush or a cloth on the lens.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The problem is doing anything about it. The mirror is what is called a "first surface" mirror. This means that it cannot be touched without damaging it. All you have is a gentle bit of air from something like an ear syringe. Do not use any of the canned air products. If air will not dislodge the dust then forget it.

 

[Mackinaw]

Owning a Pellix, I can tell you that dust on the mirror, if minor, will not show up on your photos.

The big culprit with a Pellix mirror are cleaning marks. The mirror is made of mylar and is easily scratched. I can absolutely guarantee you that anybody who used a tissue to clean a Pellix mirror scratched it. Cleaning marks will degrade image quality big-time. Everything will look very soft.

Jim B.

 

[f/16]

How do you clean the mirror if it has something on it that blowing won't remove?

 

[AgX]

The problem is doing anything about it. The mirror is what is called a "first surface" mirror.

The idea behind the Pellix was to make a "one surface" mirror...

 

[Mackinaw]

How do you clean the mirror if it has something on it that blowing won't remove?

I’ve successfully removed stuff off a Pellix mirror by using a “Q-tip” and gently swabbing the area where the stuff was. Resist any temptation to use broad strokes. Keep your cleaning localized and you should be OK.

Jim B.

 

[wiltw]

Ignoring dust, one has to account for the presence of a haze which coats the optical surfaces, accumulating over the years from the atmosphere...witness the hazy coating of the interior surfaces of automobile glass or the haze seen on mirrors and glass in homes if left uncleaned, which destroys contrast.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

How do you clean the mirror if it has something on it that blowing won't remove?

You don't. Even the softest brush will produce scratch marks. A Q-tip is even worse. If the crud on the mirror is significant then it is job for a professional who knows these cameras.

 

[Mackinaw]

You don't. Even the softest brush will produce scratch marks. A Q-tip is even worse. If the crud on the mirror is significant then it is job for a professional who knows these cameras.

Absolute baloney. I’ve successfully cleaned the mirror on my Pellix using a Q-tip. Gently swab the immediate area and it can be done.

Jim B.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Absolute baloney. I’ve successfully cleaned the mirror on my Pellix using a Q-tip. Gently swab the immediate area and it can be done.

Jim B.

'

I quote from the Canon Pellix user's manual.

Never touch the panicle mirror. If dust should accumulate on it, blow it away with a blower.

You have been very lucky. I have scratched a first surface mirror even with the very gentle use of a red sable artist's brush. The metal coating is only a few atoms thick.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How do you clean the mirror if it has something on it that blowing won't remove?

Do not do anything. Just keep your hands off. If you must take it to a professional camera repairman. If he screws it up he would have to replace it.

 

[f/16]

Sounds pretty delicate. Since there are no more new mirrors available, maybe I shouldn't get one.

 

[John Koehrer]

I use a feather(goose quill), cleaned in alcohol and allowed to dry. Use it, store it in a bag used only for this and NEVER touch the feathered end again. It will pick up oil from your finger and put it in the least desirable place like your mirror.

 

[Brett Rogers]

'

I quote from the Canon Pellix user's manual.



You have been very lucky. I have scratched a first surface mirror even with the very gentle use of a red sable artist's brush. The metal coating is only a few atoms thick.

Have you scratched a Pellix mirror by cleaning it? We have two members contesting this point. One has cleaned a Pellix mirror. The other one? I don't know. Have you?

I haven't cleaned a Pellix pellicle mirror either. But I *have* cleaned the mirror of my EOS RT. It arrived ex-eBay with a big grubby fingerprint on it that, as far as I could establish, wasn't present when the listing photos were taken. In hindsight maybe I should have sent it back, but it was years ago and I was very new to eBay.

I had no luck finding solid information about cleaning options online. The mirror itself is apparently made of mylar, and very thin at that. Eventually I decided I had little to lose by trying to clean it as it wasn't usable as it was delivered. I used a wad of Rosco lens cleaning tissue moistened with Rosco lens cleaning fluid (after blowing off any surface dust, of course). It went well. That was about six years ago, and I am still using that RT with the same mirror occasionally today.

Canon's warning in the owner's manual is not surprising. It would be quite easy to put a finger through the pellix mirror if one is hamfisted. And it would be easily scratched. It's little wonder they advised owners to leave it well alone. But construing that to mean the mirror can never be touched in any way for cleaning by any person is mis-interpreting their instructions. Are you seriously suggesting that even Canon's own service people would never clean these mirrors, but removed and replaced them, only? I seriously doubt that—back in the day they would have had the luxury of new replacement mirrors, when needed. Meaning they'd actually have less to lose by trying to clean them, first, when possible, for cost savings.

My thoughts after cleaning an RT pellicle (twice).
Don't touch the mirror if you don't have to. You can clean them gently if you must, but it makes no sense to risk breaking it even if this is minor. I know *I* have the gentle touch required to avoid damage—you might not.

Do gently blow surface dust off the mirror periodically and if conditions of use are particularly dirty, ask yourself if you really do need to change lenses. Prevention is better than cure.

If you absolutely have to clean the mirror surface, you will need to ask yourself if you have the dexterity to do this. If your track record around delicate equipment is not good, it's probably not a good idea to try it.

Scratching the coating is a possibility. You can minimise this, firstly, by blowing it off first, secondly, by minimising any cleaning contact with it, and thirdly, by using a suitable fluid to both help clean it, and (critically) to act as a lubricant on the coating to reduce the likelihood of scratching or abrading it. I would never ever advise cleaning such a surface dry, for this reason.

It's a ticklish task, but to put it in context I wouldn't regard it as being as delicate as cleaning a DSLR sensor, and people do that every day. Just try to keep the mirror clean, as you would a digital sensor and I would argue the mirror will give less problems over the decades than the sensor. Actually, it probably already has.

I'll shut up now so the armchair experts can return to their conjecturing...

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I briefly owned a Pellix but wisely never tried to clean the mirror. I traded it for reasons other than the mirror.

Two tidbits concerning the pellicle mirror. It is only 2/1000 of a mm in thickness. It is estimated that very few of these cameras still have their original mirror. I think that this latter point aptly describes what happens when some one tries to clean the mirror with something other than air.

 

[Brett Rogers]

Right on cue.

 

[flavio81]

'

I quote from the Canon Pellix user's manual.



You have been very lucky. I have scratched a first surface mirror even with the very gentle use of a red sable artist's brush. The metal coating is only a few atoms thick.

"Touch" means to touch it with the finger.

The q-tip method certainly aims at being very very gentle with the mirror. Another way, widely used by camera techs here to clean regular camera mirrors and optical camera parts, is to fold a bit of lens cleaning paper, wet it with solution, and use tweezers to gently slide the paper towards the surface to be cleaned.

The PELLIX mirror is just a tiny mylar film with silver particles on top. While regular camera mirrors are glass with silver particles on top. Thus, in theory you can clean them in a similar way to a regular SLR mirror as long as you don't exert pressure that would distort the mylar film. But the surface is supposedly just the same, perhaps with far fewer coatings than a regular mirror.

 

[flavio81]

Two tidbits concerning the pellicle mirror. It is only 2/1000 of a mm in thickness. It is estimated that very few of these cameras still have their original mirror.

Who has estimated this? I don't understand this comment. I've seen at least 4 Pellix cameras locally and they all have their mirror in place. I don't think anyone sold the pellicle mirror replacements in this city and I seriously doubt any local tech could replace such a thing.

EDIT: The pellicle mirror is 20/1000 thick*, not 2/1000 think. So it is 20 micron = 0.78 mil. For comparison, audio tapes, which are mylar as well, vary from 1.5mil (professional open reel) to 0.62 mil (60-minute audio cassette). The 1.5mil audio tape is certainly very tough and intended to be handled with bare hands. You can't stretch it easily!! The cassette tape is also tough enough. So it's not as if we're talking of a reaaaally thin surface.

I mean, is that difficult to prevent your fingers (or any object) to touch the surface of a SLR mirror over the camera's lifetime? I own and owned many SLR cameras for years and only once I did leave a fingerprint in the mirror. And this because i was changing the focusing screen, something you can't do with the Pellix.


* Source: Canon Camera Museum and elsewhere on the net.

 

[flavio81]

Scratching the coating is a possibility. You can minimise this, firstly, by blowing it off first, secondly, by minimising any cleaning contact with it, and thirdly, by using a suitable fluid to both help clean it, and (critically) to act as a lubricant on the coating to reduce the likelihood of scratching or abrading it. I would never ever advise cleaning such a surface dry, for this reason.

I agree with you and this is almost a 'law' for camera technicians: never clean a dry (optical) surface.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Who has estimated this? I don't understand this comment. I've seen at least 4 Pellix cameras locally and they all have their mirror in place. I don't think anyone sold the pellicle mirror replacements in this city and I seriously doubt any local tech could replace such a thing.

EDIT: The pellicle mirror is 20/1000 thick*, not 2/1000 think. So it is 20 micron = 0.78 mil. For comparison, audio tapes, which are mylar as well, vary from 1.5mil (professional open reel) to 0.62 mil (60-minute audio cassette). The 1.5mil audio tape is certainly very tough and intended to be handled with bare hands. You can't stretch it easily!! The cassette tape is also tough enough. So it's not as if we're talking of a reaaaally thin surface.

I mean, is that difficult to prevent your fingers (or any object) to touch the surface of a SLR mirror over the camera's lifetime? I own and owned many SLR cameras for years and only once I did leave a fingerprint in the mirror. And this because i was changing the focusing screen, something you can't do with the Pellix.


* Source: Canon Camera Museum and elsewhere on the net.

Thanks for catching the typo. Yes the thickness should be 20/1000 mm.

As far as the estimated number of Pellix cameras with original mirrors in them appeared in one of the many sites I investigated to find the mirror thickness. As to the ultimate source perhaps Canon's repair service?

I have realized that I am not concerned with all the people who think they are smarter than the Canon folks. To quote the famous Rhett Butler line "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." So prod, poke, do whatever pleases you.

 

[Brett Rogers]

Thanks for catching the typo. Yes the thickness should be 20/1000 mm.

As far as the estimated number of Pellix cameras with original mirrors in them appeared in one of the many sites I investigated to find the mirror thickness. As to the ultimate source perhaps Canon's repair service?

I have realized that I am not concerned with all the people who think they are smarter than the Canon folks. To quote the famous Rhett Butler line "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." So prod, poke, do whatever pleases you.

Firstly, if you really didn't give a damn, you wouldn't have made this comment. But you cared enough to type it. That's a fail.

Speaking for myself, I don't think I'm smarter than Canon. I've simply relayed what I've done, on the basis of my own, actual, experience. Ie: this is what I did, and this was the result.

What I have an issue with is when other people (and let's not beat around the bush here: I'm referring to you) pontificate about a task that they haven't carried out themselves, and then expect the ones who have to yield to their "opinion" as if it is an indisputable "fact". I'm well aware of Canon's instructions about their pellicle mirrors. I read the owners manuals of any of the cameras I own whenever I can get hold of them, because I'm interested in understanding their functions fully. But I've also cleaned Canon pellicle mirrors several times. I've cleaned my own RTs, twice. Now that I think of it, I have a good friend with an RT also, and I may actually have cleaned his, too (I'd have to ask him, I can't recall).

By all means pass on Canon's advice about the use and care of their mirrors. But please don't assert that they'll break if you try to touch them (well, actually, I do concede, that I'd find it quite easy to accept that one might break, if you touched one). Because I've cleaned them successfully, without damaging them, more than once. Unless I imagined the whole experience perhaps? Bottom line: you are full of it, Gerald.

 

[zanxion72]

One thing to mention with the Pelix mirror concept cameras is that these mirrors get gradually darker due to oxidation and thus can make a lens delivering photos with brightness less than the f stop reading on it.
My sweet Canon delivers photos of almost one stop less. (I dare not cleaning it up as I am of the clumsiest persons ever)

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Right on cue.