Canon F1n vs. Nikon F2? Really, is one better than the other?

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Modern photographic equipment isn't designed to be repaired by the man in the street.

Cars are getting the same way. Most cars you can't even tune them up by a home mechanic. They're computerized and most mechanics don't even diagnose them anymore. They just hook another computer up to them and the car's data is sent over the internet to another country. This saves the shop from buying the repair manuals.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Modern photographic equipment isn't designed to be repaired by the man in the street in mind, they are such complex electro- mechanical devices that the kitchen table tinkerer doesn't stand a hope in @#!*% of effecting a correct repair because they lack the knowledge, skills training, tools and test equipment, I'm a trained precision engineer and although I have the service manuals for all my cameras the more I study them the less I feel inclined to attempt to service them., I only use them to lend to my camera repairer if he needs them if they need to be serviced.

Which is why I don't have any.

 

[benjiboy]

Cars are getting the same way. Most cars you can't even tune them up by a home mechanic. They're computerized and most mechanics don't even diagnose them anymore. They just hook another computer up to them and the car's data is sent over the internet to another country. This saves the shop from buying the repair manuals.

Very true I remember even as far back as 1986 when the Canon T 90 first came I was told by Canon's national service manager ( who's name was ironically Malcolm Tester ) that they had to hook up T90's to a diagnostic computer to find out what was wrong with them.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

Just kidding, but I think it might come down to preference. There are tons of digital gear heads out there constantly upgrading. I've shot with my Canon F-1 since the 80's and I'm perfectly happy. For me, it's all about making images and the camera is really secondary. But I'm going to drop a D bomb here. It's fun to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Vz94bdlVVlc

It's funny how the guy on the video is remembering way back to the beginnings of digital SLRs as though there wasn't any history of Canon or Nikon cameras before digital .

 

[MattKing]

My wife has a Chrysler PT Cruiser. You can access many of the diagnostic codes yourself by pressing a button, going through a routine involving the ignition key, and reading results on the trip odometer.

As I understand it, many/most other cars have similar access routines.

It all reminds me of the scene in "The Last Emperor" where the royal court fortune tellers examine carefully the bowel movements of the infant emperor in order to predict the future.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Cars are getting the same way. Most cars you can't even tune them up by a home mechanic. They're computerized and most mechanics don't even diagnose them anymore. They just hook another computer up to them and the car's data is sent over the internet to another country. This saves the shop from buying the repair manuals.

Wrong.

Stick to what you know.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

Thanks for that, Martin (wet blanket... oh, did I say that out loud?). And now, back to our regular programming.

I love my F-1. I love my F2. My F-1 will give me plenty of love at all shutter speeds regardless of battery state - except for the broken battery compartment spring (Canon, I hate you). My F-1 exposure meter is correct. My F2 is pretty, my F2 is "Nikon", my F2 is built like a tank but I have to set the ASA at 100 in order to get the needle to read correctly with 400 speed film (Yes, could use the exp comp dial). Your lenses are beyond compare.

Canon, I love you. Nikon, I love you for your lenses.

 

[bob01721]

"... Thanks for that, Martin (wet blanket... oh, did I say that out loud?). And now, back to our regular programming..."

LOL!

 

[Les Sarile]

Canon, I love you. Nikon, I love you for your lenses.

Canon 'L' lenses are quite worthy.

 

[Les Sarile]

Which is precisely why, after experience with an OM4, I will never have a camera with an electronic shutter or is battery dependent in any way.

Then perhaps the Nikon FM3A may interest you as I believe it is the only full hybrid camera with aperture priority autoexposure capabilities with batteries and full shutter speed control when batteries fail.

 

[zanxion72]

Now you stretch this way too far. The FM3A is on another league. I love mine, it is my all time favorite. It is a lot more capable than the others listed here, and for some weird reason I have never shot a single film with it. I just have it in its box caring nothing happens to it. (any doctors in here? )

 

[sangetsu]

But you didn't answer the question of what feature one has over the other besides "looks" and "nameplate". For instance I prefer the LX's ability to aperture priority autoexpose a scene for as long as it takes - a feature that no other camera brand or model, past or present, can do. This gives me a photographic opportunity such as the 35 minute autoexposure example below on Kodak Ektar 100.

Hoover Dam at night

Actually, there are other cameras which can take such long autoexposures, the Nikon FE being the most obvious example.

 

[lxdude]

Actually, there are other cameras which can take such long autoexposures, the Nikon FE being the most obvious example.

The unique thing about the LX is that it is measuring the light in real time, i.e., during the entire exposure.
Pentax only specifies 125 seconds, but in reality it will go until the meter determines that exposure is correct.

 

[elcabezagrande]

The unique thing about the LX is that it is measuring the light in real time, i.e., during the entire exposure.
Pentax only specifies 125 seconds, but in reality it will go until the meter determines that exposure is correct.

The Yashica Electro 35 series of rangefinders will also take outrageously long metered auto-exposures. And possibly the Minolta Hi-Matic E and Olympus ECR, as they use the same metering and electronically controlled shutter as does the Yashica.

And I think that the Yashica Electro AX SLR (M42) will also produce similarly long metered auto-exposures.

 

[Les Sarile]

Actually, there are other cameras which can take such long autoexposures, the Nikon FE being the most obvious example.

I previously stated that I tested all my Nikons too including the FE2, FG, FA, F3, FM3A, N2020, N70 and others too and not only did none of them went past 15 minutes but that the same body under the same controlled lighting will vary exposure times randomly. In controlled lighting tests, all the Canons I tested limit to 30 seconds consistently, the Minoltas randomly past a few seconds the Olympus were consistent but limited to a few minutes while both of my LX meter consistently the same up to more than 2 hours.

This one is more than 4 hours on Kodak Gold 100.

 

[Les Sarile]

The Yashica Electro 35 series of rangefinders will also take outrageously long metered auto-exposures. And possibly the Minolta Hi-Matic E and Olympus ECR, as they use the same metering and electronically controlled shutter as does the Yashica.

And I think that the Yashica Electro AX SLR (M42) will also produce similarly long metered auto-exposures.

As I posted above, how long of an autoexposure can they do and will they do it consistently?

With the LX, it will autoexpose for as long as it takes or batteries fail and they are consistent as I have tested both of my LX to meter the same past 2 hours. Of course on top of that, it monitors the scene in realtime and varies the exposure accordingly due to it's off the film system.

 

[elcabezagrande]

As I posted above, how long of an autoexposure can they do and will they do it consistently?

The Electro 35 also features "off the film" metering.
I have no idea how long, I suppose until the battery runs out.

The photographer claims a 5-minute exposure here:

http://www.dequalized.com/page/8

and I recall a fellow posting an eight-plus minute exposure in rff a couple of years ago, but I did not save the post. I'm sure that the exposure is likely not as precise as the LX, but it is a much less sophisticated (and far less expensive) camera.

I shoot mostly in daylight, so it really doesn't matter much to me. Perhaps someone more patient than I could do some experimentation, but that is probably best left for a new thread.

 

[lxdude]

The Electro 35 also features "off the film" metering.
.

The Electro 35 does not measure light reflected from the film surface, therefore it does not have "off the film" metering. It is in fact not even "through the lens" metering, and if it isn't TTL, it can't be OTF.

 

[elcabezagrande]

The Electro 35 does not measure light reflected from the film surface, therefore it does not have "off the film" metering. It is in fact not even "through the lens" metering, and if it isn't TTL, it can't be OTF.

Oops, my bad, I misunderstood the phrase and misread the article on Electro 35 metering

The light metering electronics works by accumulating the measured light level and only releasing the shutter when it has determined enough light has fallen on the film. This system allows the shutter speed to be completely step-less and to adapt to changing light levels. SLR's would wait many years for a similar capability with off-the-film metering.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yashica_Electro_35

Now I can say that I learned something photo-related today.

 

[sangetsu]

I have been shooting both types of cameras for several years. The main reason I shoot both systems is because Nikon and Canon each have some lenses which are unique to each brand. For the Nikon, I like the old 2.1cm Nikkor, along with the 28/2.8 AIS, and the superb 105/2.5. For the Canon, I love the old 35/2 concave, and enjoy the 50/1.2L, and the 85/1.2L.



Here are a couple of my old cameras. They have both seen a lot of use, but these are actually a little cleaner than some of my other ones.

The F2 is an old "no name" titanium model made in 1979. It saw a lot of professional use in the north Pacific area in Asia, and despite ice, snow, and salt water spray, it continues to motor on.



The F1N had been used for sports shooting, mainly high school baseball and soccer games. Here in Japan the Canon FD bodies were not so frequently used by professionals compared to Nikon, but they were a top choice of serious amateurs, and Canon has a long history and great reputation in the Japanese domestic market.



It is rather hard for me to choose between the two cameras. The Canon features AE, but that is something which I seldom use. For the sake of it, I switched this camera to AE mode, and was quite surprised to find that it still works. The one drawback in the F1N is the electronic shutter. I have had to switch to my Nikon when the battery died in the Canon.

I have tried other cameras, such as the Minolta X1 (known outside Japan as the XK). I found the Minolta to be the most finicky and unreliable "professional" SLR which I have ever used. I have two which serve as bookends on my book shelf. Too bad they weren't made as well as the SR series.

Another also-was is the Pentax LX. But the selection of lenses was too limited for my taste, and I prefer the control layout on the Nikon and Canon bodies. I prefer the older Pentax K or AP for their smooth operation, and to use M42 lenses.

If I had to choose one over the other, I would go with the Nikon, mainly for it's mechanical shutter, and easy maintenance. None of my Nikons have ever required serious maintenance, except an old Vietnam war F which had sluggish slow speeds. But I have taken apart and put back together some junk shop F and F2 cameras, and found them quite easy to work on. The Canon F1N is not as easy to get into.

 

[benjiboy]

I have been shooting both types of cameras for several years. The main reason I shoot both systems is because Nikon and Canon each have some lenses which are unique to each brand. For the Nikon, I like the old 2.1cm Nikkor, along with the 28/2.8 AIS, and the superb 105/2.5. For the Canon, I love the old 35/2 concave, and enjoy the 50/1.2L, and the 85/1.2L.

View attachment 80747

Here are a couple of my old cameras. They have both seen a lot of use, but these are actually a little cleaner than some of my other ones.

The F2 is an old "no name" titanium model made in 1979. It saw a lot of professional use in the north Pacific area in Asia, and despite ice, snow, and salt water spray, it continues to motor on.

View attachment 80748

The F1N had been used for sports shooting, mainly high school baseball and soccer games. Here in Japan the Canon FD bodies were not so frequently used by professionals compared to Nikon, but they were a top choice of serious amateurs, and Canon has a long history and great reputation in the Japanese domestic market.

View attachment 80749

It is rather hard for me to choose between the two cameras. The Canon features AE, but that is something which I seldom use. For the sake of it, I switched this camera to AE mode, and was quite surprised to find that it still works. The one drawback in the F1N is the electronic shutter. I have had to switch to my Nikon when the battery died in the Canon.

I have tried other cameras, such as the Minolta X1 (known outside Japan as the XK). I found the Minolta to be the most finicky and unreliable "professional" SLR which I have ever used. I have two which serve as bookends on my book shelf. Too bad they weren't made as well as the SR series.

Another also-was is the Pentax LX. But the selection of lenses was too limited for my taste, and I prefer the control layout on the Nikon and Canon bodies. I prefer the older Pentax K or AP for their smooth operation, and to use M42 lenses.

If I had to choose one over the other, I would go with the Nikon, mainly for it's mechanical shutter, and easy maintenance. None of my Nikons have ever required serious maintenance, except an old Vietnam war F which had sluggish slow speeds. But I have taken apart and put back together some junk shop F and F2 cameras, and found them quite easy to work on. The Canon F1N is not as easy to get into.

If the battery fails in New F1 there's nothing to stop the photographer from carrying a spare, I always carry at least 2, anyway even without a battery the hybrid electro / mechanical shutter speeds of 1/125 to 1/2000 sec. plus B and the flash sync speed are still available.
P.S. Professional cameras are I.M.O. designed for professional maintenance not unskilled labour on the kitchen table http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/shutter/index.htm

 

[frobozz]

If the battery fails in New F1 there's nothing to stop the photographer from carrying a spare, I always carry at least 2, anyway even without a battery the hybrid electro / mechanical shutter speeds of 1/125 to 1/2000 sec. plus B and the flash sync speed are still available.

And just because it's so weird and confusing: if your New F-1 battery fails, you must REMOVE the dead battery to have access to those mechanical shutter speeds. Clearly there's some sort of mechanical interlock working off of the big spring loaded contact in the battery compartment, and the battery must be out for it to engage.

Duncan

 

[benjiboy]

And just because it's so weird and confusing: if your New F-1 battery fails, you must REMOVE the dead battery to have access to those mechanical shutter speeds. Clearly there's some sort of mechanical interlock working off of the big spring loaded contact in the battery compartment, and the battery must be out for it to engage.

Duncan

That's right, if all else fails read the manual.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

Of course, if the spring breaks (like mine did) you're screwed. The interlock never engages, which leaves you with a dead camera when your battery dies. For this reason, I always carry a spare or two.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

If the battery fails in New F1 there's nothing to stop the photographer from carrying a spare, I always carry at least 2, anyway even without a battery the hybrid electro / mechanical shutter speeds of 1/125 to 1/2000 sec. plus B and the flash sync speed are still available.
P.S. Professional cameras are I.M.O. designed for professional maintenance not unskilled labour on the kitchen table http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/shutter/index.htm

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