Canon F1 New AE Finder problem (help requested)

[scanalog]

Hey all, I've got an F1 New with an AE Finder. The line that moves up and down on the right side to indicate exposure for the set aperture does not move when I have a screen in. If I remove the screen (grid or ring, I have both) then the line will engage and the meter works properly. As soon as I insert a screen in, the line will not move/engage. Anyone had this issue before or have any idea what might be causing it? Many thanks in advance.

Edit: I'm a moron. I put the screen in backwards. I'll leave this here as evidence of my inability to understand basic geometry.

 

[Dennis S]

We all make mistakes, but few will admit that.

 

[benjiboy]

It's important that if you remove the F1 AE finder, when you re - install it you set the maximum and minimum shutter speed on the shutter speed dial to couple the meter back to the camera body correctly .

 

[Tony-S]

It's important that if you remove the F1 AE finder, when you re - install it you set the maximum and minimum shutter speed on the shutter speed dial to couple the meter back to the camera body correctly .

benjiboy, can you elaborate on this? I wonder if this is what is causing my AE Finder's issues, but I am unclear as to what you are describing.

 

[beemermark]

you set the maximum and minimum shutter speed on the shutter speed dial to couple the meter back to the camera body correctly .

You need to do this to couple to finder. Read the manual https://www.butkus.org/chinon/canon/canon_new_f-1/canon_new_f-1.htm see page 40

 

[Tony-S]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought I had tried that before but without success. This time it seems to have worked!

 

[benjiboy]

" If all else fails read the manual" .

 

[beemermark]

Great. Super nice camera with a ton of available great lenses cheap.

 

[benjiboy]

I'm a big fan of the F1 in all of it's versions, if God ever made any better professional 35 mm film S.L.Rs he kept them for himself.

 

[Tony-S]

You need to do this to couple to finder. Read the manual https://www.butkus.org/chinon/canon/canon_new_f-1/canon_new_f-1.htm see page 40

OK, finally had a chance to use my F-1N today only to discover that with the AE Finder there is a problem showing the proper shutter speed. On the dial on top of the camera set to 2000, in the finder it's 125. If I move the dial to 1000, the finder shows 60. And so on. Any idea what might cause this? @benjiboy

 

[benjiboy]

I suggest you re - read my post # 4. And read the manual as suggested on the link on post #5.
In short.
1 Remove the finder.
2 Replace it.
3 Rotate the shutter speed dial to the longest shutter speed .
4 Twist the shutter speed dial right round to 1/2000, then lift the knob to lock it into the red A.
When you are twisting the shutter speed dial you should hear a click when the coupling pin on the A E finder properly couples to the camera body.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes, Ben.

 

[Tony-S]

I suggest you re - read my post # 4. And read the manual as suggested on the link on post #5.
In short.
1 Remove the finder.
2 Replace it.
3 Rotate the shutter speed dial to the longest shutter speed .
4 Twist the shutter speed dial right round to 1/2000, then lift the knob to lock it into the red A.
When you are twisting the shutter speed dial you should hear a click when the coupling pin on the A E finder properly couples to the camera body.
Hope this helps.
Best wishes, Ben.

Ugh. Still can't get it. Here's precisely what I'v done.

First try.
1. Finder set to red 'A'
2. Remove finder
3. Replace finder
4. Set shutter speed dial to 8 seconds
5. Set shutter speed dial to 1/2000, then to red 'A'

Second try.
1. Set shutter speed dial to 1/2000
2. Remove finder
3. Replace finder
4. Set shutter speed to 8 seconds
5. Set shutter speed to 1/2000, then to red 'A'

Third try.
1. Set shutter speed to 8 seconds
2. Remove finder
3. Replace finder
4. Set shutter speed to 1/2000, then to red 'A'

Fourth try.
1. Set shutter speed to bulb
2. Remove finder
3. Replace finder
4. Set shutter speed to 1/2000, then to red 'A'

The issue persists with all of these. At all times:
When the dial is set to the red 'A', the finder speed is 1/250
When the dial is set to 1/2000, the finder speed is 1/125
When the dial is set to 1/1000, the finder speed is 1/60

And so on.

On page 40 of my manual, the box says:

Note: If the shutter dial is set to "A" before the finder is attached, exposure information will not be displayed. In this case, first turn the shutter dial to "20000," then back to "A."

This is not the issue I'm having (blackout in the finder). My issue is the shutter speed on the dial does not match the shutter speed in the AE Finder. The are 3 stops different.

 

[benjiboy]

Somewhere in the travel when you are turning the shutter speed dial between 8 seconds and 1/2000 you should hear an audible click when a pin couples the AE prism to the camera body.

 

[eli griggs]

I'm a big fan of the F1 in all of it's versions, if God ever made any better professional 35 mm film S.L.Rs he kept them for himself.

+1

 

[Tony-S]

Somewhere in the travel when you are turning the shutter speed dial between 8 seconds and 1/2000 you should hear an audible click when a pin couples the AE prism to the camera body.

Unfortunately, no click. Not a good sign. Do you think this is this an issue with the finder, or with the body?

 

[benjiboy]

Unfortunately, no click. Not a good sign. Do you think this is this an issue with the finder, or with the body?

To be honest I don't know, I suggest you try to get hold of another camera and / or another AE finder to borrow from someone to investigate the problem.

 

[dave olson]

I have owned F-1's for years. At present I have two, both with AE finders, one has a FN-winder attached. Over time I have changed out screens, AE finders and standard prisms. Focusing screens determine the pattern of metering: A is center weight, P is partial and S is spot. Installing a screen is straightforward, Canon screens require no adjustment. To couple the AE meter prism, slide it on the rails until it clicks. Rotate the shutter dial to 2000, then lift up the dial rotating it so the raised knob slides under the arm of the finder. You will hear a click as you do and the dial locks in place.The letter A should be opposite the white line on the body. You are in aperture priority. Looking in the viewfinder you will see on the bottom a display of the shutter speeds, depress the shutter release button half way and you will see what the camera recommends. You can change the speed by adjusting the aperture ring on the lens. Lifting the dial, turning to a shutter speed puts you in match needle metering. You match the shutter speed to the aperture on the right hand side. Bouncing bar matches inside the moveable circle. This is called manual exposure. Remember that shutter priority is only possible with a motor winder or power winder attached.

 

[benjiboy]

I have owned F-1's for years. At present I have two, both with AE finders, one has a FN-winder attached. Over time I have changed out screens, AE finders and standard prisms. Focusing screens determine the pattern of metering: A is center weight, P is partial and S is spot. Installing a screen is straightforward, Canon screens require no adjustment. To couple the AE meter prism, slide it on the rails until it clicks. Rotate the shutter dial to 2000, then lift up the dial rotating it so the raised knob slides under the arm of the finder. You will hear a click as you do and the dial locks in place.The letter A should be opposite the white line on the body. You are in aperture priority. Looking in the viewfinder you will see on the bottom a display of the shutter speeds, depress the shutter release button half way and you will see what the camera recommends. You can change the speed by adjusting the aperture ring on the lens. Lifting the dial, turning to a shutter speed puts you in match needle metering. You match the shutter speed to the aperture on the right hand side. Bouncing bar matches inside the moveable circle. This is called manual exposure. Remember that shutter priority is only possible with a motor winder or power winder attached.

I too have 2 New F1s with AE prisms Dave but your reply doesn't solve the O.P's problem, which is, his AE finder isn't coupling properly to his camera body.

 

[dave olson]

Sorry, I misunderstood. Years ago I had a similar problem, what I did was to remove the prism from the body and lay it on its back. He needs to check the underarm of the prism. The place where the pillar on the dial fits in. What that pillar does is, it raises up a part on the arm, in doing it so it establishes aperture priority. Carefully press the moveable part on the arm, checking to see if it is moveable. If it doesn't move then you have a problem within the prism. Who repairs them, I don't know. But that is how the connection is made. Again the pillar on the shutter speed dial must engage with the moving part in the arm of the prism. Check to see if that part does move.

 

[eli griggs]

That movable prism can get stuck at an angle and need you to gently, firmly, use your finger to rotate, push and pull the device until it no longer binds.

About a half seconds work but use a good cleaner to remove oils and any junk it may have collected.

 

[5BucksAtThriftStore]

OK, finally had a chance to use my F-1N today only to discover that with the AE Finder there is a problem showing the proper shutter speed. On the dial on top of the camera set to 2000, in the finder it's 125. If I move the dial to 1000, the finder shows 60. And so on. Any idea what might cause this? @benjiboy

Unfortunately as a victim of the same problem, I know exactly what the cause of this is and it may be bad news.

There is a tiny tungsten wire that runs deep inside the camera from the shutter speed dial under the prism to near the expsoure comp dial and it can be a horrific pain in the ass if it breaks. Mine luckily only came off of the little pulleys near the shutter speed dial so it didn't require as much disassembly, but if it breaks somewhere deep inside you're talking about essentially disassembling the whole camera

Here is what it should look like. The arrows are pointing toward the little pulleys with the wire in place:

Here is what the little wire looks like up close as well when it comes off of the pulley:

The only way to know for sure is doing a partial disassembly (which is a great time to do a CLA if you're in need of one!) and seeing if the wire is totally broken or just off the tracks. It cost me about $200 for a local repair guy to fix and it works beautifully now, but takes a lot of labor just to even diagnose and do the "quick" fix of just reattaching the wire if it comes off. Would have been way more I'm sure if the wire had totally broken somewhere inside. Some repair shops didn't even want to touch it and said I was screwed because it is such a pain and the chances it totally breaks is fairly high.

 

[Tony-S]

Ugh, this looks unpleasant but thanks for taking the trouble to post. So, this is an issue with the body, not the AE Finder? Exposure seems to be fine so it may just be an annoyance. I probably won't go to the trouble of taking the camera apart.

 

[5BucksAtThriftStore]

Ugh, this looks unpleasant but thanks for taking the trouble to post. So, this is an issue with the body, not the AE Finder? Exposure seems to be fine so it may just be an annoyance. I probably won't go to the trouble of taking the camera apart.

Yeah, it's an issue in the body. The finder is just displaying what the dial is set to through a complicated mess of gears and cables but doesn't actually change anything. All of the calculation for exposure is based on what you have the dial and aperture physically set to and is done via the electronics in the body. What you see in the finder is just for your info basically and that shutter speed you see in there is simply another geared dial on the opposite side of the body (think like an old school odometer) that rotates when you change the shutter speed and is displayed and magnified in the VF.

This is my super simplified layman's explanation so if I need corrected, anyone can definitely jump in.