Canon EF camera

flavio81 · Nov 8, 2016

AgX said:
The same time the AE-1 is very susceptible to sand...

All electronic cameras are mechanical as well. But electronics allow for reducing mechanical parts and, as long as the electronics are reliable, this should increase the reliability of the system.

For example the Canon EF has all sorts of contraptions to achieve shutter-priority AE:

- The galvanometer body rotates according to the shutter speed dial via a pulley and string
- Said string is also "altered" using a planetary gear system that varies said rotation to compensate for the selected ISO
- Upon pressing the shutter release, a "trapped needle" system traps the galvanometer needle so the diaphragm operating lever on the lens "descends" to the proper f/stop. This requires many mechanical parts.

Now, a camera like the AE-1 is also able to achieve shutter-priority with less mechanical components or simpler mechanical components:

- The galvanometer is fixed, it does not need to rotate.
- The galvanometer is not necessary for proper AE operation, it is only there to tell the user what f/stop has been computed.
- Upon pressing the shutter release, the diaphragm operating lever on the lens starts descending by simple spring action. While it descends, it operates an electronic wiper brush that "wipes" a special contact pattern. This pattern has a special binary coding to assure the camera's microprocessor will always "sense" the correct position of the lever, even if electrical contact is not 100% perfect.
- Once the correct f/stop is met, the position is locked and the shutter is fired. I think (not completely sure, though), that this is done using only one solenoid, perhaps the same used for firing up the mirror.

There is also a pulley and string on the AE-1, for coupling the shutter speed dial to a potentiometer. But this could have been removed as well. In any case the string path is much straighter and simpler than in the EF.

benjiboy · Nov 8, 2016

AgX said:
The same time the AE-1 is very susceptible to sand...

What S.L.R cameras are'nt "susceptible to sand" ?.

Theo Sulphate · Nov 8, 2016

But the EF is mechanical art; the AE-1 is a soul-less assembly of electronic components.

(I have and enjoy both the EF and AE-1)

cooltouch · Nov 8, 2016

Given that the EF requires two batteries for all its features to be operable, I can't consider it to be "mechanical art." Hybrid, maybe. In terms of cameras, to me "mechanical art" is a Canon F-1n or a Nikon F2, where the battery is required for the meter only, or the Leica M4, which requires no battery at all. In fact, if I were forced to choose between a Canon F-1n and its almost twin-looking SLR, the EF, I'd choose the F-1n every single time. It's a better camera and it operates in a manner that I prefer over the EF. And I don't have to worry about battery drain, a well-known problem with the EF.

The EF and AE-1 are both assemblies of electronic components. It's just the EF, mostly because of its age and heredity, has more mechanical vestiges than the AE-1 does. I liken the EF, Canon's first generation shutter-priority camera, to the Nikkormat EL2, which was Nikon's full-size, first generation attempt at an FE, Nikon's aperture-priority answer to the AE-1. These first generation machines, were big and robust, but beautifully made, and are worthy of consideration as wonderful pieces of art from this historically narrow perspective. The AE-1, and the subsequent A-series cameras that followed, are more champions of industrial art. Their effect on the industry was huge, so they're about as soul-less as the first generation Ford Mustang was. Like it or don't.

frank · Nov 8, 2016

cooltouch said:
The AE-1, and the subsequent A-series cameras that followed, are more champions of industrial art. Their effect on the industry was huge, so they're about as soul-less as the first generation Ford Mustang was. Like it or don't.

I'd liken the A series more to the pony era of mustangs that evolved due to gas shortages/high prices.

cooltouch · Nov 8, 2016

Your analogy doesn't work, though. The Mustang II was a nadir of automotive design, and was in no way a trend setter. It was a knee-jerk reaction to market forces, and not a force at all, the way the A-series Canons were.

frank · Nov 8, 2016

Works for me because they are both under-whelming.

Dennis S · Nov 8, 2016

Just picked one up on Sundays swap meet. Not too happy as the meter doesn't work at all and no slow speeds. Been going over the manual I bought from Lynn Butkus to troubleshoot the problem. Everything else seems to sound and look good but a disappointment so far.

Theo Sulphate · Nov 8, 2016

In the best case, it could be faulty electrical contacts in the battery compartment.

Wipe clean with isopropyl alcohol & pencil eraser afterwards. Ensure contacts are tight against inserted batteries.

You've probably already done this though.

Dennis S · Nov 8, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
In the best case, it could be faulty electrical contacts in the battery compartment.

Wipe clean with isopropyl alcohol & pencil eraser afterwards. Ensure contacts are tight against inserted batteries.

You've probably already done this though.

When I first got it I put in the 1.4 Volt batteries and found it not working then I read some on it and found that I could use the 1.5 V batteries. Tried some still did not work. Went to store and bought new 1.5 and still nothing so I think I covered all I could. Doing roll to test and see if the AE works by setting the shutter speed properly. Maybe just the light is not working. The slow speeds do not work either. Maybe the Canon Gods will see my predicament and heal it over the next day or 2 ;o). Have the sellers info so it is only a phone call away. SSDD

darkroommike · Nov 9, 2016

The Canon EF is the only FT series camera that employs a voltage regulation circuit, it is not dependent on specific battery voltage and will work (if it works at all!) with anything between 1.35 and 1.5 volts. It was also the first FD-mount Canon to flash synchronize faster than 1/60th of a second.

cooltouch · Nov 10, 2016

dances_w_clouds said:
When I first got it I put in the 1.4 Volt batteries and found it not working then I read some on it and found that I could use the 1.5 V batteries. Tried some still did not work. Went to store and bought new 1.5 and still nothing so I think I covered all I could. Doing roll to test and see if the AE works by setting the shutter speed properly. Maybe just the light is not working. The slow speeds do not work either. Maybe the Canon Gods will see my predicament and heal it over the next day or 2 ;o). Have the sellers info so it is only a phone call away. SSDD

Chances are it's just plain dead. I've owned a few EFs like this. When they're working, everything works, I've found.

If the seller represented it as being functional electronically, I'd return it.

BMbikerider · Nov 10, 2016

A good 'EF' is very good. When I was a Canon user I used to think of mine as a poor man's F1. Not too dissimilar to look at and almost as well built. I had no problems with it what so ever. A lovely camera.

Mackinaw · Nov 10, 2016

cooltouch said:
Your analogy doesn't work, though. The Mustang II was a nadir of automotive design, and was in no way a trend setter. It was a knee-jerk reaction to market forces, and not a force at all, the way the A-series Canons were.

You know nothing about cars. The 1974 Mustang II was a spectacular success. Sales increased from 134,000 (1973 Mustangs) to over 385,000 (1974 Mustang II). The American public, and the automotive press, loved this thing.

flavio81 · Nov 10, 2016

BMbikerider said:
A good 'EF' is very good. When I was a Canon user I used to think of mine as a poor man's F1. Not too dissimilar to look at and almost as well built. I had no problems with it what so ever. A lovely camera.

To be honest, the poor man's F1 is the FTb. Same metering system, same type of shutter, and also a manual camera.

The EF was almost as expensive as the F1 back then, so not really a "cheaper substitute".

flavio81 · Nov 10, 2016

dances_w_clouds said:
When I first got it I put in the 1.4 Volt batteries and found it not working then I read some on it and found that I could use the 1.5 V batteries. Tried some still did not work. Went to store and bought new 1.5 and still nothing so I think I covered all I could. Doing roll to test and see if the AE works by setting the shutter speed properly. Maybe just the light is not working. The slow speeds do not work either. Maybe the Canon Gods will see my predicament and heal it over the next day or 2 ;o). Have the sellers info so it is only a phone call away. SSDD

Many times when electronic cameras appear "dead", it's just bad contacts / corroded contacts / cold solder joints.

There are TWO electronic integrated circuits on the EF -- two independent circuits. One is for the metering, another is for the electronic slow speeds. If BOTH are not working then you can bet it's just a case of power not getting there to the circuits.
Plus a third circuit (using two or three transistors) for the battery check feature. If this one does not work then you can bet it's just a problem of power not getting to the circuit.

You should disassemble the bottom plate and take a deep look at the battery contacts, get them cleaned. Then remove the battery plastic holder (2 screws, i think) and look at the underside for corrosion and the state of the wires. Then try again. If the camera experienced a harsh environment then perhaps removing the top plate to check for the power switch contacts would be important too. The top cover is more or less easy to remove if you follow the instructions out there on the web.

Dennis S · Nov 10, 2016

OK. Thanks for the tips but I just talked with the previous owner and he is going to exchange the camera for another that he has or refund the $$. I am not going to risk my investment by taking it apart. Now I see why it looked like a new camera.

flavio81 · Nov 10, 2016

dances_w_clouds said:
OK. Thanks for the tips but I just talked with the previous owner and he is going to exchange the camera for another that he has or refund the $$. I am not going to risk my investment by taking it apart. Now I see why it looked like a new camera.

Sometimes this is a blessing in disguise: A camera stops working, then the owner does not use it and thus it arrives 20 or 30 years later into your hands in very very good shape. It is just a matter of solving the problem to bring it back to life - and then you have a camera that feels and looks as brand new.

Theo Sulphate · Nov 10, 2016

flavio81 said:
...
There are TWO electronic integrated circuits on the EF -- two independent circuits. One is for the metering, another is for the electronic slow speeds. ...

Can the EF be used with just one battery? It's the only camera I know of that has two distinctly separate compartments rather than stacking the batteries in a single compartment. Is it possible that one battery is for the meter circuit only and that the other is for the 1-second and longer speeds?

That way, someone who wasn't going to be using the slow speeds need not have a battery installed which wouldn't be used.

But perhaps the EF always needs both batteries.

benjiboy · Nov 10, 2016

flavio81 said:
To be honest, the poor man's F1 is the FTb. Same metering system, same type of shutter, and also a manual camera.

The EF was almost as expensive as the F1 back then, so not really a "cheaper substitute".

It isn't the same metering system Flavio although it is the same oblong 12% centre weighted metering pattern the Ftb has a Cds metering cell, the EF has the much more sensitive Silicon Blue cell that was better than the Cds cell that was in both the original F1 and F1n of that era, many pro's bought them because of this as a backup for their F1's because of their shutter speed priority automation and more sensitive metering, I used to sell these cameras at a professional dealers back in the day, and I can assure you this is true.

AgX · Nov 10, 2016

Silicone Blue Cell is another term for filtered photo-diode, in contrast to the CdS photo-resistor.

flavio81 · Nov 10, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Can the EF be used with just one battery? It's the only camera I know of that has two distinctly separate compartments rather than stacking the batteries in a single compartment. Is it possible that one battery is for the meter circuit only and that the other is for the 1-second and longer speeds?

No, those circuits use both batteries.
When you switch into the mode for the CAT flash, the metering circuit uses only one of the two batteries.

flavio81 · Nov 10, 2016

benjiboy said:
It isn't the same metering system Flavio although it is the same oblong 12% centre weighted metering pattern the Ftb has a Cds metering cell, the EF has the much more sensitive Silicon Blue cell that was better than the Cds cell that was in both the original F1 and F1n of that era,

That's what i mean. The F1 and the FTb have the same metering pattern and probably the same metering system as well. Different than the EF.

colin wells · Nov 11, 2016

dances_w_clouds said:
OK. Thanks for the tips but I just talked with the previous owner and he is going to exchange the camera for another that he has or refund the $$. I am not going to risk my investment by taking it apart. Now I see why it looked like a new camera.

Broken ones are going for £55 on the net and are selling .I am after a spare as i am hope to swap viewing screens .

cooltouch · Nov 13, 2016

Mackinaw said:
You know nothing about cars. The 1974 Mustang II was a spectacular success. Sales increased from 134,000 (1973 Mustangs) to over 385,000 (1974 Mustang II). The American public, and the automotive press, loved this thing.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2016/10/17/ford-mustang-ii

Canon EF camera

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