Cancer.Photo chemicals. Are they linked?

[Shakti V.]

I mix my own chemicals now. It just worries me, because as of the recent
reports, the rates of cancer are rising. Would you know if exposure to
photographic chemicals, from the raw chemicals to the pre-packed chemicals
that we use, could trigger, or contribute to the development of cancer- -any
kind of cancer?

 

[vet173]

If you have a concern, wear gloves, and when working with powders, use a respirator ( not those cheap dust mask ) under a vent if available. Just that much there, will take you pretty much out of the realm of concern. The packaging of pre packs will have handeling precautions. You can also look up the MSDS of seperate chemicals. With simple precautions I can assure you that your demise will be at some other hand than a darkroom.

 

[Merlin]

Offcourse you should consider your own health, but you should also consider carefully what you do with the disposal of the used fluids. For example, I use thiocarbamide in a sepia-toner, which is pretty toxic to the life in the water, but less toxic for the human darkroom user. You can cause cancer to other lifeforms than your own.

 

[Soeren]

If you have a concern, wear gloves, and when working with powders, use a respirator ( not those cheap dust mask ) under a vent if available.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a vent but I wouldn't recommend to much disturbance of the air when handling powdered chems. You are right about the mask and gloves though. If really concerned you could make an acrylic aquarium, cut some holes for your hands/arms and handle the powdered chems in there to avoid inhalation of the dust. just remember to clean up throughly. Hydroquinone, -ferricyanides and the -dichromats are some of the bad ones.
If you can get the work don in a fume cupboard thats the best solution but they are not really standard household apliances
edit BTW the MSDS for the warious chems should be available somewhere on the web
Cheers
Søren

 

[Woolliscroft]

When I was taught processing I was told that some of the C41 chemicals were carcinogenic, but I don't know what the evidence is.

David.

 

[Soeren]

When I was taught processing I was told that some of the C41 chemicals were carcinogenic, but I don't know what the evidence is.

David.

Tried on Mice and Rats.
Cheers
Søren

 

[George Papantoniou]

http://www.amazon.com/Overexposure-...ef=sr_1_1/104-9140353-5102347?ie=UTF8&s=books

 

[André E.C.]

Do you smoke?

Cheers

André

 

[User Removed]

Pretty much EVERYTHING causes cancer today. Just by being outside in the sun you can get skin cancer! So, yeah...just dont be bathing in your chemicals and make sure your darkroom in vented.

Do you smoke?

Cheers

André

 

[Soeren]

Do you smoke?

Cheers

André

Get your point but have you ever heard about accumulative effects
Off cource one should allways think about the exposure to the chems (fumes, dust and skincontact) and if you don't handle the stuff on a regular basis (daily or nearly daily) and use gloves the risk is low compared to e.g. smoking, trafic and stress
Cheers
Søren

 

[JBrunner]

If you have decent ventilation, wear gloves, and have clean darkroom habits, something else will get you long before working with common darkroom chems will. While it isn't a non issue, proper precations and procedures can make it one.

 

[Gerald Koch]

http://www.amazon.com/Overexposure-...ef=sr_1_1/104-9140353-5102347?ie=UTF8&s=books

This is a dreadful book because it does not take into account dosage. For example, both acetic and phosphoric acid are described as dangerous causing burns. While this may be true of the concentrated acids we ingest the more dilute forms every day in soft drinks and pickles. Without a discussion of dosage and LD50 values this book is merely alarmist literature and of no value to the darkroom enthusiast. I wonder how many people have been driven away from photography by this book.

BTW, my training is as a chemist.

 

[Xmas]

Jay a subscriber here makes his developer out of a derivative of pain killer, but the lye it is mixed with is not so nice.

You need to use kitchen style rubber gloves to keep the pH of your skin ok, ignoring any toxins in your processes. But I'd avoid any of the toxic processes.

You may have a waste disposal local to dump toxins, e.g. silver residue, in rather then your local animal and fish water table or water recycling catchment.

Noel

 

[Photo Engineer]

At Eastman Kodak, those who use chemicals regularly undergo a complete medical checkup every 6 months in their very extensive medical division. In addition, extensive tests of the chemistry is done on animals.

To date, the cancer level at Kodak is within normal ranges AFAIK, and the chemistry, at most, has shown only respiratory or skin effects in humans and animals. These effects can be prevented by respirators, eye protection and rubber gloves.

At EK, we were not allowed to wear contact lenses in chemical labs. Some fumes could get behind the lens and irritate the surface of the eye.

Most health problems seen were stress related.

That about summarizes it.

PE

 

[srs5694]

Another important point that's gotten little attention so far in this thread is that the risk varies greatly from one substance to another. Some component chemicals, such as sodium carbonate, are common household chemicals used for other purposes (as a laundry booster, in the case of sodium carbonate). A few, such as ascorbic acid (vitamin C) may even be ingested (although of course there's a lethal dose even of such chemicals). Of course, being a common household chemical doesn't mean it isn't risk-free -- sodium hydroxide (lye) is often used as a drain opener, but the fact that it's a common household chemical doesn't mean you should be careless in its use, in or out of the darkroom.

As for cacinogenic effects specifically, I haven't seen warnings about this for most photochemicals. One exception that springs to mind is formaldehyde, which is used in C-41 stabilizer (but not in the newer C-41 final rinse). My reading of the issue is that the studies of formaldehyde's effects on humans produce mixed results, and those that show effects are studies in which subjects receive huge doses. Thus, for C-41 stabilizer, it's probably adequate to just wear gloves, so long as you're not doing massive quantities of C-41 processing.

I'm certain there are other photochemicals that are known or suspected carcinogens, but I don't recall the details. They're relatively uncommon, though.

 

[Jim Jones]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolliscroft
When I was taught processing I was told that some of the C41 chemicals were carcinogenic, but I don't know what the evidence is.

David.

Tried on Mice and Rats.
Cheers
Søren

Mice and rats aren't the perfect test animals. I suggest also using paparazzi.

 

[DannL]

When and if you acquire cancer, you can draw as many associations as you wish. There's a good chance your associations will be wrong 100% of the time. If you're told it was due to the lack of ventilation, that answer would be as valid as having been told it was caused by the lack of sex. So, stay safe and get plenty of both. You just never know.

I develop in drums/color processing tubes. It reduces fuming and splashes. I suggest you do the same.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear All,

Lots of common sense being talked, its about taking all reasonable precautions for yourself, others around you and the environment, and
also being alert to any sensitivities you may personally have to any chemicals
used. Obviously some component chemistries can be hazardous, some
in your kitchen cupboard can be pretty dangerous as well...salt for instance !


Obviously ventilation is the most important aspect, also read ( I mean really read ) the MSDS sheets and the product instructions very carefully ( especially about mixing ) the MSDS ( Material safety data sheets ) for KODAK and ILFORD products especially are very,very thorough and relate mostly to European Health & Safety legislation, which tends to be tougher ( especially in relation to labelling ) than US legislation.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

 

[Aggie]

Dear All,

Lots of common sense being talked, its about taking all reasonable precautions for yourself, others around you and the environment, and
also being alert to any sensitivities you may personally have to any chemicals
used. Obviously some component chemistries can be hazardous, some
in your kitchen cupboard can be pretty dangerous as well...salt for instance !


Obviously ventilation is the most important aspect, also read ( I mean really read ) the MSDS sheets and the product instructions very carefully ( especially about mixing ) the MSDS ( Material safety data sheets ) for KODAK and ILFORD products especially are very,very thorough and relate mostly to European Health & Safety legislation, which tends to be tougher ( especially in relation to labelling ) than US legislation.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

I agree whole heartedly. What one does need to remember is even the MSDS charts are for exposures that we doing photography will not come in contact with unless we are using reagent grades, and large volumes that will be in contact with either skin/lungs/digestive system Those guidelines in the charts are for major exposures, in mass quantities over extended periods of time. Albeit there are a few that it doesn't take that long or much, but those are the really nasty acids and bases. Proper precautions are best served. We go through this type of discussion about every two months.

Those afraid of sodium hydroxide or lye should also know that it is a food aditive. Hominy is soaked in a solution of it. The soap you use has it as the main sponification agent, so you are rubbing it on your skin all the time if you bathe. Your body has as it's main components between nerve cells three chemicals that some seem so afraid of. Sodium, Potassium, and calcium. We need those to live. Alos one of the worst toxins and carcinegens out there today is readily available and we breathe it 24/7 without anyway of stopping it. It is Oxygen. Legislation has been proposed and was passed in Dana Point California in the past banning Dihydro monoxide. People are afraid of chemical names and reading the DMSD charts. There it was described as a solvent, and dangerous. It is plain water. So learn more than just the MSDS charts. Learn what you use, and use proper precautions. BUT! don't be afraid. You have worse exposure from radiation while sitting in front of your computer than you do from chemical problems in the types of photography darkrooms we use.

 

[raucousimages]

I know people who have smoked for over 40 years with no problems but when I was in bootcamp we had an 18 year old recruit discharged with cancers of the lip, tung and gums after chewing tobacco for just over two years.

There are chemicals that one person may have a great sensitivity to that will have no cancerous effects on another person. There is no way of knowing what chemical will cause a given person to develope cancer. O.K. Plutonium will give all of us cancer but I don't use it in the darkroom.

Cleanliness and common sense are the order of the day.

 

[gainer]

I'm 79 yrs old and started developing film at about age 12. Unless photo chemicals cause osteoarthtitis, which I doubt, I have no personal evidence of harm. The human body has some quite effective defenses. Sodium hydroxide, spilled on your hands, should certainly be removed, but the skin oil turns to soap and the hydroxide to carbonate, so residual amounts cause no more than irritation if you wash with water. Certain fumes are dangerous. Most of the commonly used chemicals do not easily form airborne powders. As others have said, simple precautions assure long life and lots of fun.

Someone has said that life is a precancerous condition. I'm still pre.

The results of using sodium or potassium hydroxide are often not as caustic as the original material. Rodinal, if properly made, has pH much lower than 13 or 14 that a solution of the hydroxide alone would have. Soap, especially what you buy ready made, has little or no free hydroxide, the hydroxide having reacted with the fatty acids to make sodium-fatty acid and water.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I once dumped a warm concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide on my forearm and hand. It soaked my shirt, lab coat and my hand. I immediately washed all in running water. The shirt and lab coat dissolved and the arm and hand survived!

A person behind me had an explosion which release nitric acid. It blew the back out of my shirt and lab coat. I survived. I keep the shirt here as a souvenier.

As for MSDS information, remember that not all ingredients in a chemical mixture must be listed, especially if propietary or below a certain level deemed harmless by laws in the area of the world in which the mixture is sold. So, be wary of MSDS informaiton.

PE

 

[rtuttle]

The Westons lived to be quite old even sticking their hands directly in Amidol till their fingernails turned black and smoking to boot! Adams lived to be quite old. Seems like it couldn't be that bad.

 

[Soeren]

Its all statistics. You might not be affected as certain smokers does 40-60 a day and life till their 90'ies. When you test if a chemical is carcinogenic you administrate it to a number of e.g rats and when a certain % of those develops cancer its considered carsinogenic. That doesn't mean youll get cancer if your exposed to the chem but it means there is a higher risk you will and the exposure, your lifestyle, invironment and your genes will sit down in a meeting and get to a verdict.
Cheers
Søren

 

[DBP]

I've spent relatively little of my life in contact with photographic chemicals, and have survived two cancers, neither of which I would even begin to link to photography. Several members of my family have spent a lot more time with photographic chemicals than I without ill effect. Frankly, you probably experience greater hazard of cancer from exposure to benzene fueling your car and lawnmower than from anything you are likely to do in a darkroom. So take reasonable precautions, relax, and have fun.