Can you re-use hypo-clear and photo-flo?

[brian steinberger]

I've been using both one-shot since I started. I also mix both with distilled water. I was wondering if I could get away with reusing either solution and what the limit is. I'm talking about using these solutions for film development.

 

[bdial]

Photo-flo can be re-used, though lots of people do not. I'm not sure about hypo-clear, the manufacturers information sheet should say if you can and what the capacity would be.

 

[Kilgallb]

Kodak Hypo Clear specifically mentions capacity per gallon. It is about 100 to 150 8x10 sheets of film or the same number of 36 exposure 35 mm rolls per gallon. This assumes you pre-rinse the film before placing in the hypo clear.

I am not sure about paper as I amm strictly an RC man.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Hypo-clear has a tendency to degrade after a while. Personally, I went the "expensive" way and mixes working strength solution each time I print FB. I try to print a decent number of prints, but nevertheless I discard the used HCA after the session.

If you buy the liquid versions, it's not that inconvenient, and is only a minor expense for your processing. You don't need distilled water for HCA, unless your tap is really bad. Tap water is already is a better fixer removal agent than distilled water anyway, and using it won't deplete your distilled water stock for nothing.

Photo-flo I will use for more than one roll only within the same session. Whether I develop 10 rolls or 2 rolls, I will dunk them one by one in the 500mL of photo-flo I prepared and then throw it away after use because I don't care enough to keep yet another bottle for it in my cabinet. Again, this is such a low expense, that I prefer being overly safe.

 

[jeroldharter]

Don't re-use hypo-clear. I can't remember the exact reasons, but it has a shelf life of about one day. I tried that in my Nova slot processor and it developed an awful scum that was hard to clean. Also, PermaWash is very cheap.

Likewise with PhotoFlo. A 16 oz bottle seems to last for life so why try it?

 

[dpurdy]

Hypo clear does go bad in 24 hours if left in a tray. However you can pur it off in a bottle and keep using it about a month I think. The same is true for Orbit Bath which seems much more expensive untill you figure in dilutions and if you pour it off in a bottle after use, then it is pretty cheap.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Photo-flo attracts dust. Best to use it once. It is very inexpensive. By attracting dust, I mean that any dust that comes in contact with it will sink, as Photo-flo reduces the surface tension of water. So there can be lots of dust in the solution if you reuse it much.

 

[dancqu]

I'm talking about using these solutions for film development.

I do not use hca for film and I'm not alone. As for Photo-Flo
some do some do not. Dan

 

[brian steinberger]

I do not use hca for film and I'm not alone. As for Photo-Flo
some do some do not. Dan

Dan,

What's your reasoning for not using a hypo clearing agent with film?

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I've been using both one-shot since I started. I also mix both with distilled water. I was wondering if I could get away with reusing either solution and what the limit is. I'm talking about using these solutions for film development.

HCA in its simplest form is a solution of Sodium Sulfite dissolved in water.

Sodium Sulfite solutions exposed to air are eventually oxidized to sodium sulfate.

If for some reason you feel you must use an HCA, I recommend using it as a one shot.

 

[Kilgallb]

Doesn't using Hypo Clear reduce the amount of water you use to wash your film or paper. This alone should be enough reason to use the stuff.

 

[brian steinberger]

Doesn't using Hypo Clear reduce the amount of water you use to wash your film or paper. This alone should be enough reason to use the stuff.

Exaclty.. I'm curious as to why you would not use it, or why and how it could possibly be harmful to the process.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

How you wash depends a lot on how you fixed

Doesn't using Hypo Clear reduce the amount of water you use to wash your film or paper. This alone should be enough reason to use the stuff.

No, How you wash your film or paper depends a lot on how you fixed it. Film washes very quickly in a minimum amount of water if it was fixed in a rapid fixer that contained ammonium ion (no HCA bath needed).

Fiber base paper washes with the least water if it is fixed properly in a 2 fixing bath process. Selenium (or other) toning is required for best Fiber Print archival characteristics.

 

[brian steinberger]

No, How you wash your film or paper depends a lot on how you fixed it. Film washes very quickly in a minimum amount of water if it was fixed in a rapid fixer that contained ammonium ion (no HCA bath needed).

Fiber base paper washes with the least water if it is fixed properly in a 2 fixing bath process. Selenium (or other) toning is required for best Fiber Print archival characteristics.

Tom,

What amount of time do you recommend washing film without a HCA? Also, what's the harm in using one?

Brian

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

Tom,

What amount of time do you recommend washing film without a HCA? Also, what's the harm in using one?

Brian

Brian, IMHO it is best to determine the washing time required for your individual system based on residual Hypo testing.

What harm in using HCA? HCA's can cause their own problems if you do not wash them out properly.

I recommend that you read P.E.'s post on Fixing and Washing:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[mmcclellan]

Both of these are so cheap that it's hardly worth the risk to screw up processing by scrimping on the money side. Toss them both after a good use and don't risk any short or long term damage to a single print or piece of film.

 

[dancqu]

Dan, What's your reasoning for not using
a hypo clearing agent with film?

Hypo clearing agent is optional even with paper.
Ilford does not suggest the use of hca with film.
I use a little modified Ilford wash sequence;
allowing some time for soaking. Also the
wash water is at room temperature.

On reflection I do not recall any instructions calling
for the use of hca with film. RC paper is like film; an
emulsion on plastic. Dan

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Selenium (or other) toning is required for best Fiber Print archival characteristics.

Only insofar as selenium toning is not partial. Polysulphide (brown toner) gives much better protection for partial toning.

 

[radiantdarkroom]

Hypo clear works great for getting rid of that purple cast in Tmax films. After 10+ years of using Hypo clear I found that it lasts about as long as rapid fixer. When the fixer is finally exhausted I change the hypo clear. Photo-flo is good for at least a week, depends on how much film you process and you should definitely use distilled water. Hypo-clear and photo-flo are cheap, but I don't think you really need to dump them every time you process film. I tend to use Kodak film due to it availability in may city so I can't really say what the best methods for Ilford film are.

 

[dancqu]

Only insofar as selenium toning is not partial.
Polysulphide (brown toner) gives much better
protection for partial toning.

The IPI has reported that sodium sulfide at 1:9,999
gives complete protection to microfilm. Microfilm's
emulsion is considered similar to paper's. Dan

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

The IPI has reported that sodium sulfide at 1:9,999
gives complete protection to microfilm. Microfilm's
emulsion is considered similar to paper's. Dan

Amazing, isn't it? I've also read that even merely dipping the negs for a few seconds in sulfide was already giving a huge protection boost. Not sure if that was in Haist or in Rudman's book.

I'm tempted to start sloshing my negs for about a minute in working strength brown toner before the final wash. Of course, after that I should start putting my negs in polyester sleeves instead of printfiles, according to Henry Whilhem anyway... Damn, it's a slippery slope!

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

I use hypo one-shot. I don't even mix a working solution, I take a tablespoon or so of the powder and mix it in hot water before use. I'm not sure if i'm mixing it too strongly or too weakly but it seems to work.. *shrug*

 

[Kilgallb]

I find Delta 100 sheets processed in a roller drum require double strength Hypo clear just to clear the anti-halation layer. If you do not use Hypo clear no amount of washing gets rid of that screen door effect on the back of the negative.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I find Delta 100 sheets processed in a roller drum require double strength Hypo clear just to clear the anti-halation layer. If you do not use Hypo clear no amount of washing gets rid of that screen door effect on the back of the negative.

.

The rapid fixer that I use removes the antihalation and sensitizing dyes without using any HCA.

One or two tablespoons of Sodium Carbonate dissolved in a liter of water will remove the antihalation dye residue and the residual sensitizing dye as well. Sodium Carbonate is much better than HCA (i.e. Sodium Sulfite) for this purpose).

To get the dye off of the back of the negative you need to make sure you soak the back of the negative.