Can you develop color film w/o sulfite?

[Seth Oldham]

I am a film student and have filmed 4 rolls of Super 8 through my Yashica Super 800 Electro and I have a Bell and Howell 240 coming in the mail soon. I have only ever used Pro8mm for my processing and scanning but I hate how expensive it is and I want to develop, and scan, my own film. I have already done extensive research into developing equipment for Super 8 and plan to use a lomography spiral to develop my film, but I have seen that lots of developers uses sodium sulfite. This is a problem for me because sodium sulfite is the one thing one this planet that I am deathly allergic to, I am anaphylactically allergic to sulfites. Are there any alternative chemicals or processes or anything like that than can help me out?

Thanks.

 

[Seth Oldham]

Thanks for the article, though I wish there was a way to develop color film w/o sulfite.

 

[JensH]

Hi,

Sorry, no idea about color film processing.
I've used a zero sulfite Pyrocat variant found in a vintage reciepe in Hans Windisch "Die neue Foto Schule" 1943, pages 104/105:
It is meant to be a highly compensating developer for thin b&w films.

I call it Pyrocat W-0. ;-)

Solution A
Brenzkatechin (=Pyrocatechine) 10,00g
Destilled water to make 100ml

Solution B:
10% Sodiumhydroxide solution
Solution B in destilled water.

Working solution:
Water 500ml
Solution A 10ml*
Solution B 5ml...

With Ilford PanF Plus and 10 minutes @ 18°C, you get an ca. N-2 result with much compensation, EI 16.
The working solution exhausts really quickly, so nothing for rotary dev.
* 16ml of A give denser negatives. I like it better this way with PanF Plus...
When developing faster films this should work too soft, even when doubling the volume of B?

Best
Jens

Edit: Noticed too late you look at color dev.

 

[MattKing]

Thread title updated - the OP is looking for colour developing.
And welcome to Photrio.
What film are you shooting?

 

[Don_ih]

There will likely be sodium sulphite in the fixer, also.

 

[mohmad khatab]

There will likely be sodium sulphite in the fixer, also.

The problem is not with the Fixer solution now.
I have a lotion recipe (Blix), which might work without sulfite.
The issue of the (Fixer) solution is not the biggest problem now. Solutions can be found one way or another.
But the problem is with the developer.

 

[mohmad khatab]

I am a film student and have filmed 4 rolls of Super 8 through my Yashica Super 800 Electro and I have a Bell and Howell 240 coming in the mail soon. I have only ever used Pro8mm for my processing and scanning but I hate how expensive it is and I want to develop, and scan, my own film. I have already done extensive research into developing equipment for Super 8 and plan to use a lomography spiral to develop my film, but I have seen that lots of developers uses sodium sulfite. This is a problem for me because sodium sulfite is the one thing one this planet that I am deathly allergic to, I am anaphylactically allergic to sulfites. Are there any alternative chemicals or processes or anything like that than can help me out?

Thanks.

Hello
I find myself sympathetic to you very much and I hope I can help you with this
Do you have an allergy to all categories of sulfites?
The amount of sodium sulfite does not exceed two and a half grams. This amount can be replaced by potassium sulfite.
Have you tried using potassium sulfite?
What is the Super 8 movie category? I mean, what treatment Development & process do you want to use?
Is it ECN2, or E6 process?
In light of your answer, I will try to help you in this regard.

 

[Don_ih]

But the problem is with the developer.

Fixing is as much a part of the development process as developing. If he needs a sulphite-free developer, he also needs a sulphite free fixer. I mentioned it because, while many people mix up developers from scratch, few mix up fixer.

The best way to deal with the allergy is to get someone else to develop the film. Or wear a mask, goggles, and long rubber gloves while doing it.

 

[koraks]

Are there any alternative chemicals or processes or anything like that than can help me out?

It'll require extensive research to substitute something else for the sulfite - IF it can be done in the first place. C41 developer (I'm assuming we're talking about this, not E6, but you haven't specified it...) requires a small amount of sulfite to balance the developer. Color balance will NOT be to spec if it's left out and gamma will be too high.

The best way to deal with the allergy is to get someone else to develop the film.

That would be my suggestion.

 

[Murray Kelly]

How important is the sulfite really? IDNK but Gainer who was ever saying ascorbate and A acid could replace sulfite. 10g worked as well as 80g of sulfite so he claimed.
I think the lifetime of the developer may be short but normally one takes great care to exclude air in the storage bottles anyway.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Fixing is as much a part of the development process as developing. If he needs a sulphite-free developer, he also needs a sulphite free fixer. I mentioned it because, while many people mix up developers from scratch, few mix up fixer.

The best way to deal with the allergy is to get someone else to develop the film. Or wear a mask, goggles, and long rubber gloves while doing it.

Yes, I respect your point of view, which is a very reasonable point of view.
But I can mix the (fixing) stage with the (Bleaching) stage in one solution, and it can be, in one way or another, free of sulfites.

The fellow questioner (OP) must have already known that the easiest way out of this predicament was to ask someone to develop his films for him.

Will wearing gloves and a protective mask really solve the problem? - I really don't know, who can answer this question is Mr. (OP) after he has tried this proposal. And I think that he does not want to risk this experiment, even if it turns out to be a failed experiment, which will cause him a lot of pain. Maybe .

 

[mohmad khatab]

How important is the sulfite really? IDNK but Gainer who was ever saying ascorbate and A acid could replace sulfite. 10g worked as well as 80g of sulfite so he claimed.
I think the lifetime of the developer may be short but normally one takes great care to exclude air in the storage bottles anyway.

This is a very innovative and logical solution and it doesn't matter in this case whether this affects the life span of the solution or something (it doesn't matter here in this case)

 

[mohmad khatab]

It'll require extensive research to substitute something else for the sulfite - IF it can be done in the first place. C41 developer (I'm assuming we're talking about this, not E6, but you haven't specified it...) requires a small amount of sulfite to balance the developer. Color balance will NOT be to spec if it's left out and gamma will be too high.


That would be my suggestion.

Yes, dear brother, I completely agree with your point of view.
In fact, I was already ready to delve into such research and experiments in order to get an answer in favor of the colleague (OP), but so far he has not answered the important central question, (What development formula does he want to use), is it (E6). Or (ECN2)?
If the required formula is (ECN2) it will be much easier. Perhaps we can find a way out of this dilemma in a safe way.
- I think that a person who is allergic to sulfites, perhaps a fortiori, will naturally be allergic to (CD4) and (CD3) as well. And if this guess is correct, then even if we get a sulfite-free formula, it is impossible to get On a CD4 or CD3 free format.
Therefore, I support your point of view and advice regarding the wearing of heavy-duty gloves, a strong protective mask, and laboratory goggles as well.

 

[koraks]

IDNK but Gainer who was ever saying ascorbate and A acid could replace sulfite.

To the best of my knowledge Gainer never did anything with color developers and all his work on VitC developers was for B&W materials.

I think the lifetime of the developer may be short but normally one takes great care to exclude air in the storage bottles anyway.

It's not there as an antioxidant per se. AFAIK the hydroxylamine sulfate is the primary antioxidant in C41 developer. The sulfite is really there for balancing the developing rates of the different layers. Hence, it's essential. Will you get an image without? No doubt. Will it be any good? Much doubt.

 

[Don_ih]

Will wearing gloves and a protective mask really solve the problem?

People don't normally get poisoned by the potassium dichromate in the bleach, so - yes, it should solve the problem.

 

[koraks]

the potassium dichromate in the bleach

C41 or E6 bleach has no dichromate, nor does regular B&W bleach. Only some old bleach formulas for B&W reversal and some other misc stuff has dichromates in it - NONE of it commercially available these days for obvious reasons.
Whether or not people get 'poisoned' is debatable, arguably it's quite hard to reduce exposure to absolute ZERO if you work with the stuff at all, even if you use gloves etc. The exposure might be considered acceptable (although again, the question can/should be raised if there's such a thing as an acceptable exposure to chromates!!). But that doesn't do you any good if you're allergic to someone, as acceptable levels are generally close to zero when it comes to allergies.

 

[mohmad khatab]

People don't normally get poisoned by the potassium dichromate in the bleach, so - yes, it should solve the problem.

I never talked about ( potassium dichromate ) ..

 

[mohmad khatab]

I noticed that the colleague (OP) created and wrote the post and then disappeared and did not answer our inquiries, leaving us to discuss with each other.
I don't know if he was actually interested in continuing this discussion or not.?

 

[Don_ih]

I never talked about ( potassium dichromate ) ..

It was an example of something toxic that people still use in photochemistry.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

arguably it's quite hard to reduce exposure to absolute ZERO if you work with the stuff at all, even if you use gloves etc.

This could be of some help to the interested: GLOVE SELECTION CHART.

 

[AgX]

I even doubt that skin contact with the developer containing sulfite would trigger an anaphylactic shock. But rather indigestion.
Check this with your clinic.

A linked issue though maybe the breathing of Sulfur-dioxide from the fixer.
Check this with your clinic.

 

[halfaman]

I think that in any case the safest choice for you would be to let the film be processed by a lab.

 

[adycousins]

Colour developers are compounded with a minimal amount of sulphite as it prevents colour forming, C-41 for instance contains only 3.5g per litre of sulphite.
ECN-2 developer only contains 2g per litre - https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...ssing-KODAK-Motion-Picture-Films-Module-7.pdf

Sulphite acts as a preservative, so you could just increase / use the other ingredient that performs this role - hydroxylamine sulphate.

It is also possible to make a really basic fix that doesn't contain sulphite - just sodium thiosulphate (I made a fix like this a few days ago), it will have a shorter shelf life but it will work. A good source for these formulas is the Patrick D Dignan book on compounding colour formulas, available here:
https://www.filmkorn.org/simplified-color-processing-forms/?lang=en

 

[koraks]

Colour developers are compounded with a minimal amount of sulphite as it prevents colour forming

Indeed, it's a powerful dye formation inhibitor. For this reason it CANNOT be simply left out or replaced with HAS. It'll unbalance the developer quite dramatically, causing excessive dye formation and loss of tracking between the individual color layers resulting in balance and/or crossover issues.

 

[halfaman]

https://www.filmkorn.org/simplified-color-processing-forms/?lang=en

Thanks for the link!