Can you believe Adorama would post this?

[HelenOster]

Actually, the first step should be to end your relationship with Mr. Resnick. Not because of the article, but due to his use of another photographer's image (it takes a huge leap of faith to believe that he would alter an image meant to be a place saver). While I disagree with much of what he wrote, I don't get bent out of shape by the ramblings of every individual who pursues his photography differently than I choose to pursue mine. The fact is Photrio (and APUG before) has had members just as militant as Mr. Resnick, though from the other side. I also agree your CS department is in need of a refresher course in what a CS department is supposed to do.

Finally, I think it would be great if you invited articles from those who choose film over digital. Make it a contest, publish the winner, with a film centered prize for the chosen writer. Set up parameters (word count, number of images), and set a submission deadline. (I'm sure we'd all like to win a few thousand rolls of 120 Acros 100- just kidding, there...)

I can't comment on the ALC hiring & firing policy...... .....but I love your suggestion in the final para - have already copied it & sent to the ALC editor.

 

[eddie]

One would think pilfering the work of another is a valid reason for termination.

Please let us know if the editor goes for the contest idea. I think you'd get some strong, passionate submissions from the Photrio analog contingent. I have a few ideas myself...

 

[HelenOster]

One would think pilfering the work of another is a valid reason for termination.

Please let us know if the editor goes for the contest idea. I think you'd get some strong, passionate submissions from the Photrio analog contingent. I have a few ideas myself...

What I meant, was that HR issues are way outside of my scope to suggest.


The competition, though, sounds like a fabulous idea and as I said, I already forwarded it on to the editor.

 

[eddie]

What I meant, was that HR issues are way outside of my scope to suggest.

I didn't mean to imply it would be in your power to decide. I just hope those with the power realize how damaging it would be to overlook a transgression of this magnitude.

 

[CMoore]

Perhaps it was (somewhat) a case of a Company giving a lot of Leeway/Freedom to an "established" employee, or contributor.....whatever he is.?
I am not as upset (about the film part) as some of the members, but it sure seems like a bad idea.
I have a hard time believing that Adorama would want to deliver this verbal slap across the face to many of its customers who Use/Buy film and film related items.........does that really make sense.?
Is it possible this guys article never would have made it passed the desk of the Adorama Higher-Ups, if they had known the content.?

 

[Truzi]

Yes, Adorama has pro-film articles in the learning center. I think the sensitive issue is not whether an article is pro- film or digital, but whether it denigrates the other and it's users.

 

[HelenOster]

There will be a Management review tomorrow - Monday. From a brief conversation with the Sales Director last night, I absolutely believe this is being taken very seriously at the highest level.


I hope you will all accept my sincere apologies on behalf of Adorama for this series of mess-ups, the result of which - leaving a part of our loyal customer base feeling insulted and disrespected - is a situation that I'm certain was not anticipated or intended.

 

[CMoore]

Thank You for the update Helen.
You are Customer Service.?.....i know these situations are not easy to face.....they are embarrassing at best.
IMHO, you have handled this well and done the right thing.
At this point, Adorama certainly has egg on their face. Good Luck with your task ahead.
You seem like an honest sort.

 

[HelenOster]

Thank You for the update Helen.
You are Customer Service.?.....i know these situations are not easy to face.....they are embarrassing at best.
IMHO, you have handled this well and done the right thing.
At this point, Adorama certainly has egg on their face. Good Luck with your task ahead.
You seem like an honest sort.

Thank you.

My role at Adorama is to support our customers across all the online photography forums and Blogs, plus Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, various shopping and feedback sites, Google Business and Flickr groups. I've been dropping in here for coming up 10 years; our customers are always at the forefront of everything I do.

 

[klownshed]

Another case of one person has an opinion and some other people disagree with it (some of whom will pretend to be offended*).

And after it all dies down nothing will have changed except that one person with an expanding family and a penchant for the hyperbolic will be a little bit richer and can spend his newfound windfall on a case of Acros. (But probably won’t).

*If you have the courage of your convictions nothing should offend. Water off a ducks back... ;-)

 

[AgX]

I do not understand the whole aggrevation. And I am saying this as a film-only guy here at Photrio, who never bought at Adorama. I was really surprised to see this thread going that long in shortest time.
Yes, that reply Sirius got was complete nonsense. But I experienced much worse replies, even by CEOs. Seemingly meanwhile the top managers know about that reply and that some find the initial article misplaced. I think that should be sufficient.

 

[trendland]

Sirius Glass how often you are using the phrase :"What is he/she smoking" I wonder more and more what are you consuming. ...with regards.....PS : "We don't see the world as it is - we see the world as we are....

 

[trendland]

I do not understand the whole aggrevation. And I am saying this as a film-only guy here at Photrio, who never bought at Adorama. I was really surprised to see this thread going that long in shortest time.
Yes, that reply Sirius got was complete nonsense. But I experienced much worse replies, even by CEOs. Seemingly meanwhile the top managers know about that reply and that some find the initial article misplaced. I think that should be sufficient.

Indeed - there is no need to buy anything at "Adorama" with regards

 

[trendland]

C'mon, are they to sell products or to publish posts?
Do you buy based on what others say or do you trust only yourself?

Perhaps it is just a provocate statement to bring Adorama in a close focus of people.B&H probably has no need to do this in the same way because much more people know B&H.with regards

 

[David Luttmann]

The reply you received was not only poorly worded, but the CS agent didn't appear to have the slightest understanding at all of your complaint. As soon as I saw your posting here earlier I fired off a screen shot to the CS Manager stating my concerns. I do understand that this undoubtedly rubbed salt in the wounds (which I'm sure wasn't his intention), however, as it definitely didn't read like an official response, it can only have been the agent's own attempt at an apology/explanation.

Please accept my deepest apologies, although I don't expect this to change your mind about ordering from Adorama Camera. There are many fine alternatives around, and if our failure to serve you well on multiple levels causes you to look elsewhere it is completely understandable.

Maybe going forward, as a first step, the Adorama Learning Center Editor will need to review putting in place tighter controls on contributing authors.

If I could offer some advice Helen. For starters, the article should be deleted. Not only is it poorly written and really devisive, the fact that the author stole the image has left a bad taste in the amount of many. This issue has rolled around photo forums and a multitude of Facebook pages/groups that involved tens of thousands of members. Removing the article would be a good step...as well as leaving up the apology.

Finally, the author should not be permitted to post articles attached to Adorama again.

And while I'm at it...maybe a free roll of for everyone.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If I could offer some advice Helen. For starters, the article should be deleted. Not only is it poorly written and really devisive, the fact that the author stole the image has left a bad taste in the amount of many. This issue has rolled around photo forums and a multitude of Facebook pages/groups that involved tens of thousands of members. Removing the article would be a good step...as well as leaving up the apology.

Finally, the author should not be permitted to post articles attached to Adorama again.

And while I'm at it...maybe a free roll of for everyone.

That is sage advice but even though Helen would probably agree with you, I doubt that Adorama's management is adult enough to do the right thing.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I do not understand the whole aggrevation. And I am saying this as a film-only guy here at Photrio, who never bought at Adorama. I was really surprised to see this thread going that long in shortest time.
Yes, that reply Sirius got was complete nonsense. But I experienced much worse replies, even by CEOs. Seemingly meanwhile the top managers know about that reply and that some find the initial article misplaced. I think that should be sufficient.

Here is short summary for you.
First, it was about 2018 article trashing film. On the site of the company selling film.
Second part is about Chief Writer at Adorama Learning Center stealing image from another site.
I don't think seven pages is something long for those two snafus. IMO.

The only store I went at my own during 2017 trip to NYC was BH. I went where to buy film and chemicals.
Which I'm using now, because my two years old, 3K$ digital camera has to go for year long (in average) service back to nearby NJ. So, tell me how film is expensive over digital now...
And beside BH I met, took photo and paid for the photo from great instant film photographer with 50+ old film camera, which still works.

And the only on-line subscription I have for the store media, learning center is BH.
I watched recently one great street and documentary photographer who came to NYC from Israel. He is great photographer and was not bashing film.
And on previous week I watched another known photographer who came to NYC from Canada, he told about benefits of digital, but he was not trashing film.

 

[AgX]

If there was a copyright infringement I would not blame Adorama. At least I myself even as an editor would not try to check such on an author unless I have profound reason to do. The same for a text.
But as manager I likely would have a sporadic look into comunications with customers, to avoid such nonsense reply.

 

[Rudeofus]

I do not understand the whole aggrevation. And I am saying this as a film-only guy here at Photrio, who never bought at Adorama. I was really surprised to see this thread going that long in shortest time.

About 15 - 20 years ago a serious debate started online about the merits of digital photography vs. film. Numbers were thrown in, comparisons made, articles written, flame wars ensued, lomography turned into an aesthetic movement, film moved from recording medium towards unique artistic medium. Digital photographic technology improved a lot during this period, soon surpassing analog photography in ease of use, fine detail resolution and sensitivity. Analog photography reinvented itself with its own style - after fighting film grain for over 150 years it was finally embraced as a means of artistic expression. A lot of intelligent discussion took place, and both digital and analog photography gained artistic insight from it, despite all the vitriol thrown around in some endless flame wars. At last, several years ago, things sort of settled down, analog and digital shooters both went their way, some doing both, but at least the endless flame wars went away.

And now, after years of relative peace, this author walks in like a toddler, completely oblivious to all the discussions which ever happened about this topic, and slaps together a "worst of argument list against film shooting" with points which have been addressed a gazillion times already - ten years ago that is. Probably didn't even realize that it's sooooo 90ies to grab a random image off the internet and use it for your own article. Maybe also oblivious to the fact, that a 750 image on a morning shooting bonanza hasn't been considered art either lately. Whether he wrote in favor or against film doesn't matter at this point, the whole article ignores well over a decade of intelligent debate and brings absolutely nothing new to the table. This is second or third school grade presentation level material, not an article for wide dissemination among adults.

 

[faberryman]

I didn't even know Adorama had the Adorama Learning Center, so, but for the broohaha, I would have never seen the article. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Uncle Bill]

This crossed my path courtesy a blog post on Japan Camera Hunter. What's interesting is the timing of when the post went up during Jewish High Holidays, I don't know if it was scheduled in-house or uploaded by an outside agency working on behalf of Adorama. I commented on the blog post proper and on two FB film photography groups so I'm not going to rehash it here. To my understanding, the community manager looking after Adorama's online presence outside has extensive photo industry experience and wouldn't make a big mistake like that. To my understanding, the person who wrote the blog post, in particular, is a regular contributor to Adorama's Learning Centre, there should have been some oversight in regards to the content. Either way, senior management returning from Passover is getting an earful online. This is content marketing 101, stick to what's set out in the editorial schedule and don't piss off a customer segment.

As for stealing Ken Rockwell's Leica M3 photo, using it without attribution and permission should be a firing offense for copyright infringement, also think of Rockwell's growing family.

I look at it this way, I drop on average $120 USD in film every time I visit NYC to shoot while I'm in town, I might buy some other things while I'm there, a lens maybe or a new camera bag or tripod. I just won't be getting off at Union Square for that stuff next time, there are other options.

 

[faberryman]

was there this same amount of outrage last year ( or was it the year before ) when b/h
was deeply involved with discrimination at their locations ? did people do this same sort of thng
( suggest embargo, rant for 7 pages &c).

I ranted about B&H lying about shipping regulations as a reason for stopping selling photographics chemicals except in-store. They changed their tune and resumed shipping them quietly and without apology. None of these resellers are saints.

 

[removed account4]

was there this same amount of outrage last year ( or was it the year before ) when b/h
was deeply involved with discrimination at their locations ? did people do this same sort of thng
( suggest embargo, rant for 7 pages &c)

I ranted about B&H lying about shipping regulations as a reason for stopping selling photographics chemicals except in-store. They changed their tune and resumed shipping them quietly and without apology. None of these resellers are saints.

yeah that is not good, but they were also sued for millions in discrimination case ...

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=JZXLWqOLCYvisAXL5Z_QCQ&q=b+h+lawsuit&oq=b+h+lawsuit&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i13k1l2j0i22i30k1l3j0i8i13i30k1l3.2553.6732.0.8146.13.11.0.0.0.0.141.1146.4j7.11.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.11.1143.0..0j0i131k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.vk_8yuY7f3Q

 

[Ko.Fe.]

If there was a copyright infringement I would not blame Adorama. At least I myself even as an editor would not try to check such on an author unless I have profound reason to do. The same for a text.
But as manager I likely would have a sporadic look into comunications with customers, to avoid such nonsense reply.

I was managing multi-million dollars sales during nineties in FSU countries and it was sales of strictly digital video equipment and computer based solutions for film industry, included. But I never bashed film in my articles, because like many in broadcast, production industry I was respecting film and we deal with film studios. And it seems still the same even now.

As manager could you imagine Adorama's article "Five reasons why I quit from Leica and using Fuji"? Fuji is cheaper, more reliable, better service, more advance and compact.
Now way! Because Leica is 6000$ cameras and 3000+$ lenses brand.

 

[CMoore]

yeah that is not good, but they were also sued for millions in discrimination case ...

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=JZXLWqOLCYvisAXL5Z_QCQ&q=b+h+lawsuit&oq=b+h+lawsuit&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i13k1l2j0i22i30k1l3j0i8i13i30k1l3.2553.6732.0.8146.13.11.0.0.0.0.141.1146.4j7.11.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.11.1143.0..0j0i131k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.vk_8yuY7f3Q

I guess i only, ever, just give that a quick look.
Not sure of the Truth/Details/Outcome, but.......this is kind of disturbing :

"Additionally, these men allegedly had to use segregated restrooms and were often subject to verbal harassment, including racist comments, which went ignored by management."

Again, i am not hip to all the details, but i guess this was (Only/Mostly) at their warehouse and not at their retail store.?