Can these analog equipment bottles handle high temperature?

lukajaku · Nov 17, 2023

Hello,

I've bought some used bottles that are designed to store chemicals and I want to clean them because there are some impurities inside of them. To clean them I might need to pour boiled water and I'm not sure if these bottles can handle high temperature water. Did anyone tried that before? The temperature of boiled water can be up to 212 °F (100 °C).

Bottles:
Jobo Wide-Neck (1000ml) black,
KAISER / Cinestill Collapsible bottle (1000ml),
Plastic bottle white (1000ml).

Thank you!

BMbikerider · Nov 17, 2023

They should be OK, but why would you need to use boiling water? If the deposits are 'crusty' such as dried on developer or other chemicals the safer way would be to fill the container with about 25% of the capacity and add either small pea size pebbles or small stainless washers and either shake them vigorously for about 5 mins, then clean out the contents and repeat.

Be aware that some chemicals can be partially absorbed by certain types of plastic and it will be impossible to get rid of all traces. This is particularly so with colour chemicals. Tetenal used to print warnings in their E6 kits such as keeping the measuring beakers for the 1st and 2nd developers in dedicated containers and not to mix them.

Neal · Nov 17, 2023

I would not use boiling water. Let some hot tap water sit in them for a while and use a good bottle brush.

Good luck!

runswithsizzers · Nov 17, 2023

You need to look at the bottom of each container to see which kind of plastic it is made from. Then look at:

Melting Point of Plastics | The Ultimate Guide

Plastic melting point is a crucial factor must be known by every manufacturer and we have explained it here in a detailed manner.

plasticranger.com

7 Types of Plastics | An Helpful Illustrated Guide

7 Types of plastics with different applications, properties, chemicals structure, melting point, recyclability, and FDA compliance.

plasticranger.com

Be aware that the plastics may start to soften and deform at significantly lower tempertures that the actual melting point.

lukajaku · Nov 17, 2023

Thanks for the answers! It's very helpful. I want to use boiled water because with boiled water and citric acid and brush usually it's easy to remove impurities for example precipitate inside the teapot.

runswithsizzers · Nov 17, 2023

Most of the plastic bottles I use for photo chemicals are HDPE which according to <this article>
"...must not be used with products filled at over 145°F..." [63*C]

I notice that article also says HDPE is, "Inadequate for products sensitive to oxidation," so maybe I should switch to glass?

koraks · Nov 17, 2023

Many plastic bottles will start to deform if you pour boiling water into them. Generally they bulge out under the weight of the water as the polymer softens. They usually never go back to their original shape afterwards. I wouldn't recommend it; stay below 60C or so to avoid such problems.

lukajaku said:
KAISER / Cinestill Collapsible bottle (1000ml),

Those are a nightmare to clean anyway, and the harmonica thing is liable to develop leaks over time if used as intended as well. I'd steer clear of these bottles.

Welcome to Photrio!

runswithsizzers said:
I notice that article also says HDPE is, "Inadequate for products sensitive to oxidation," so maybe I should switch to glass?

For certain things like color developers I find glass to really be better than HDPE. I once tried it with C41 developer stored in glass bottles and developer from the same batch in an entirely full HDPE jug. The developer in the jug oxidized significantly faster than the stuff in glass. Both were still fine after a few months of storage, but I decanted the developer from the HDPE jug back into glass bottles to prevent further decay. However, most chemistry keeps fine in HDPE bottles.

_T_ · Nov 17, 2023

Those collapsible bottles are difficult to clean. The other one's will be easier, but the most effective way to get them clean depends on what kind of contamination they have.

I don't think citric acid is going to help very much, and there's a good chance that boiling water will shrink your bottles.

I think beyond hot soapy water and a good scrub, any further cleaning is going to be difficult without further information.

Brad Deputy · Nov 17, 2023

Perhaps a good soaking of hot water and vinegar?

eli griggs · Nov 17, 2023

Simply do not use water hotter than 125°f or lower, somestainless steel steel bird shot for shotguns, a few ounces will do, out of five or six shells in a single box of heavy (over an ounce @) 25 rounds.

Don't BUY CHEAP Dove or Upland Game shells, but very good Remington or Winchester or Federal, stainless steel migrating waterfowl ammo.

Use some distilled water and the shot to each container, a few ounces of water should do.

Place the container on a Uniroller or other rolling mechanism and run it until the container is clean of debris.

Give the bottles a good shake, especially the accordion type, to shift the shot into other groves, so your clean-up is complete.

Wash the stainless steel shot clean, place on an absorbent towel, heated by a low heating device, and store in a jar with silica dry packs.

Philippe-Georges · Nov 18, 2023

Is there a difference between the temperature when only deformations occur or when plastic really 'melts'?

eli griggs · Nov 18, 2023

Philippe-Georges said:
Is there a difference between the temperature when only deformations occur or when plastic really 'melts'?

Yes.

Take a hdpe (#2) milk jug and pour in some boiling water, with or without a top, which will pop off while the water is very hot; replace the cap as the water cools and watch the jug collapse as the hot water molecules become less active than boiling water steam.

The jug will deform but not melt.

I believe, IIRC, that milk jug hdpe plastic will approach a 'melting' heat at about 225° 250+°f, for forming into blocks, rounds press molded items, however, for extrusions, like making hdpe 'string' for 3D polymer printers, which becomes a thick, but fluid, extruder material at around 300°f - 350°f.

koraks · Nov 18, 2023

Philippe-Georges said:
Is there a difference between the temperature when only deformations occur or when plastic really 'melts'?

Yes. It's a broad temperature range where polymers generally start to soften up to the point where they become liquid.

In fact, the temperature range tends to extend all the way down through room temperature and freezing. Which is why it's so common for plastic stuff to break in winter (when it's brittle) and less so in summer, and why plastic containers stored in the freezer sometimes don't fare too well.

eli griggs · Nov 18, 2023

koraks said:
Yes. It's a broad temperature range where polymers generally start to soften up to the point where they become liquid.

In fact, the temperature range tends to extend all the way down through room temperature and freezing. Which is why it's so common for plastic stuff to break in winter (when it's brittle) and less so in summer, and why plastic containers stored in the freezer sometimes don't fare too well.

Yes, I've had Ziploc and Glad clear plastic containers and tops, actually shattered from a short four, or five foot drop, from the top freezer of our fridge, onto a stoneware tile floor.

Peanut butter, clear plastic jars have proven less brittle when dropped from a freezer, as does mayo and salad dressing, like Miracle Whip.

I know this because I've used PB jars and mayo plastic containers for double sealing chemicals like Glycin, long term in the freezer, without killing us all.

Chan Tran · Nov 18, 2023

For one time washing it should be OK. Some of the plastic will be in the water. Generally it has to be over 300F to see any deformation. Plastic moding machines melt the plastic around 400F. For storing I wouldn't put anything higher than 100F.

koraks · Nov 18, 2023

Chan Tran said:
Generally it has to be over 300F to see any deformation.

I learned this the hard way: pour boiling water in a plastic bottle and it may deform depending on the exact type of polymer and the additives (plasticizers) used. It's guesswork for any given bottle. I do not recommend it. Everyone should of course decide for themselves how they like to experiment. It's a just a couple of plastic bottles, after all.

guangong · Nov 18, 2023

I use glass. In late 1970s local college was moving its chemistry department to a new building and intended to dump contents of old lab. I acquired a number of brown bottles of various sizes as well as beakers and flasks, that I still use today. The beakers and flasks are made of Pyrex, but even then all can be cleaned with warm water. I also rescued a lifetime supply of lab glass cleaner and still have a lot left. My experience with plastic storage bottles is that they are often not airtight.
I do like the idea of using small pebbles as physical cleaning agents. I have several large bottles that have residue but too large for cleaning brush to reach and this idea is worth a try.

maltfalc · Nov 18, 2023

polypropylene is the only common plastic bottle material that will be fine at that temp. should be marked "pp" or "5".

wiltw · Nov 18, 2023

'It depends' upon the specific type of plastic...some thermoplastics get soft enough to mold into a different form as low as 68F, others about 105F, and others as high as about 248F
Some 'polypropylene' molds as low as 86-176F, others at 104-176F.

see this for 'thermoplastic' materials

Plastic Material Melt & Mould Temperature Chart | PlastikCity

Knowing the optimal plastic material melt & mould temperatures is essential for all manufacturers. Find out what temperatures you should be using for your plastic material.

www.plastikcity.co.uk

maltfalc · Nov 18, 2023

wiltw said:
'It depends' upon the specific type of plastic...some thermoplastics get soft enough to mold into a different form as low as 68F, others about 105F, and others as high as about 248F
Some 'polypropylene' molds as low as 86-176F, others at 104-176F.

see this for 'thermoplastic' materials

Plastic Material Melt & Mould Temperature Chart | PlastikCity

Knowing the optimal plastic material melt & mould temperatures is essential for all manufacturers. Find out what temperatures you should be using for your plastic material.

www.plastikcity.co.uk

no idea what low melting point polypropylene is used for, but every polypropylene container i've tried has held up to boiling water or even higher temps, even for hours at a time.

tokam · Nov 19, 2023

PET plastic jars such as peanut butter and mayo deform very easily in the dishwasher. That could also be due to the caustic nature of the dishwasher tablets. Hand wash these and use them for storing dry goods in the kitchen.

I had a disastrous experience many years ago when a friend gave me about 100g of sodium hydroxide in a PET jar. I put it on my laundry shelf and forgot about it. Several months later I found that the NaOH had completely eaten through the jar and, of course, it had stripped the paint from the shelving. A little bit of clean up and a repaint was called for.

I think that HDPE containers are quite chemical resistant but I don't know what their heat resistance is like.

Those concertina bottles are a complete waste of time. Back in the mid '70s I bought a couple of them, branded Falcon Air Evac from memory. Impossible to properly clean and I have since learnt that the plastic used was relatively gas permeable compared to other plastics.

For storing working solutions - D-76, Xtol and fixer the PET soda bottles are good. PET has low gas permeability. Before closing put a squirt of butane in the bottle and put a few layers of Saran/Glad wrap under the cap to improve the seal.

koraks · Nov 19, 2023

tokam said:
For storing working solutions - D-76, Xtol and fixer the PET soda bottles are good.

I store my working strength RA4 developer in PET soda bottles. Works great. It really needs to be PET (or glass) - if I use HDPE for this, the developer eats through it! LDPE - the same, but quicker.

Can these analog equipment bottles handle high temperature?

lukajaku

Attachments

BMbikerider

Neal

runswithsizzers

Melting Point of Plastics | The Ultimate Guide

7 Types of Plastics | An Helpful Illustrated Guide

lukajaku

runswithsizzers

koraks

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_T_

Brad Deputy

eli griggs

Philippe-Georges

eli griggs

koraks

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eli griggs

Chan Tran

koraks

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guangong

maltfalc

wiltw

Plastic Material Melt & Mould Temperature Chart | PlastikCity

maltfalc

Plastic Material Melt & Mould Temperature Chart | PlastikCity

tokam

koraks

Moderator

Can these analog equipment bottles handle high temperature?

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