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Pioneer

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I use SLR, TLR and rangefinder, as well as a few scale focus cameras. Each type has its charms and each type has areas where it provides a slight advantage.

For me the rangefinder is a little quicker to use. I suspect that helps explain its popularity as a street camera as there are times when you must be quick to get your shot. Let me explain a bit.

Focus is quite quick, even though that may seem a bit counter-intuitive since most rangefinders are manual focus. There are two ways this can happen. First, wide angle lenses have a pretty wide depth of field, particularly at f11 or wider. So you can set your lens to give you an acceptable level of sharpness within a fairly wide range of distances. Second, most rangefinder lenses have a short focus throw. My Zeiss ZM 50/2 Planar goes from 0.7m to infinity in about 95 degrees of rotation. This means that you can focus very quickly if you want. Again, if your aperture is at f11 or narrower than you don't have to be right one the money, close is good enough, just like horseshoes and hand grenades.

The next issue that isn't often considered with rangefinders is the shutter response time. My M3 takes a picture within 17 milliseconds of pushing the shutter button. My Zeiss Ikon takes 14 milliseconds in manual, 20 in autoexposure mode. The Leica M7 in manual fires in 12 milliseconds. These are very quick times. The quickest the Nikon F6 will fire is 37 milliseconds and this is not the average. And the Nikon is considered a very quick camera. BTW, the M8 and M9, Leica's digital entries, take 80 milliseconds, so Leica lost a lot of shutter speed on the way to digital.

When you combine these features with the large, bright, always on, viewfinder on these rangefinders you can see why they are considered so quick, and a real darling of the street shooter crowd.

But remember, it takes time to master these cameras so that you can actually take advantage of this quickness. You won't just pick one of these cameras up and immediately step into the street and be capable of taking fast and masterful street shots.

And lest you believe that a top of the line, auto exposure and autofocus dslr is faster, it isn't. Auto focus for one adds dramatically to the time. Most SLRs, digital or not, have to keep the mirror down while the lens focuses, then they flip the mirror out of the way to take the shot. A Canon 1DS Mk IV, a pro camera for sure, takes up to 120 milliseconds to get shots sometimes and the average is a bit below 100.

Food for thought when considering your next camera. Remember, shooting your kids in the back yard is a lot closer to street photography than portrait photography. :smile:
 

Maris

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Depending on the optical baseline a rangefinder can be focussed more accurately than a SLR. SLR focus depends on the eye's power to sense contrast while the RF uses the eye's vernier discrimination which is much less ambiguous. The superiority of the RF is most marked for wide angle and normal lenses and the SLR wins for long focal length lenses.

The rangefinder camera is smaller for a given format than a SLR because it doesn't need a mirror box and prism. This the inconspicuous street shooter tends to like.
 

ic-racer

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The main advantages of a rangefinder camera:

1) The camera will work just fine with the lens cap on
2) The viewfinder is always sharp and clear, even when the lens is not focused properly
3) The viewfinder shows what exists to the upper left of your intended image, in case you want to know what is over there
4) You can use a big wide-angle lenshood to block the lower part of the viewfinder if needed
5) You can block the lens with your fingers, camera strap or parts of the camera case without ruining the image in the viewfinder
6) It keeps you at least 3 feet from your subject
7) It promotes imaginative thinking to determine how out of focus areas will appear in the final image
8) Some advanced models let you take rolls and rolls of film framing your image in the 90mm box when you have a 35mm lens in place
9) It lets you vignette the corners of your image with lenshoods or stacks of filters without ruining the image in the viewfinder
 
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Pioneer

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The main reasons I use a rangefinder camera:

1) The camera will work just fine with the lens cap on
2) The viewfinder is always sharp and clear, even when the lens is not focused properly
3) The viewfinder shows what exists to the upper left of your intended image
4) You can use a big wide-angle lenshood to block the lower part of the viewfinder if needed
6) You can block the lens with your fingers without ruining the image in the viewfinder

6a) or with the camera strap, etc.
7) burn the shutter curtain to complete toast by pointing it temporarily at the sun once you do remember to remove the lens cap.
8) where having a lens that will actually focus down to 0.7 meters is considered a plus.
9) when carrying a camera that has no more features than a K1000 is considered the badge of the true photographer.

EDIT - Hmm, come to think of it, about the only thing a rangefinder does really well IS street photography...(Just Joking Folks!!) :D
 
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Nuff

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So pretty much from the above points, you better be smarter than average photographer.

As for burning hole in shutter, my Pentax MX has the same type of shutter as Leica. So far no issues...
 

Bill Burk

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DannL., ic-racer and Pioneer... Those posts are funny!

I was going to write a straight answer but I keep busting up.

OK here is a straight answer...

If you look at the 35mm cameras available in 1952, the Rangefinder was the best choice. Early SLR's were not as nice. Though it has as much build quality as the rangefinder, a Contaflex that I owned had a dim view and the blackout after shooting was annoying. Once SLR's had f/1.4 lenses, instant-return mirrors, light metering and automatic diaphragms... Then it's harder to decide rangefinder or SLR because they both perform very well.
 

frank

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So pretty much from the above points, you better be smarter than average photographer.

As for burning hole in shutter, my Pentax MX has the same type of shutter as Leica. So far no issues...

Same shutter curtain type maybe, but in an SLR, it is protected by the mirror.
 
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Canon made a slr? Not sure if you can call it that with a fixed pellicle mirror that allowed the film to be exposed without flipping away because it was semi transparent. Darker finder but it eliminated finder blackout

Icracer you forgot to mention rangefinders allow you to guesstimate with polarizers when you use one. As well as potentially damage your shutters when trying to collapse new lenses. :wink:
 

Dali

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For me Olympus OM-1n + 28mm f/3.5 on street, but there are other SLRs which may be smaller in size.

What a coincidence! This is EXACTLY what I used recently for street photography! Great combo, light, obvious to use and the OM1 is silent for a SLR camera.
 
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They are very convenient when working with IR film and those impossible-to-see-through filters that are necessary...
 
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hoakin1981

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Thanks

A big thanks for all replies received so far. Apparently you need to use one to be able to fully appreciate its advantages. So far I have been using a Pentax MX + 50mm f1.9 for all street work with no problems. To be fair the MX is indeed very small by old-SLR standards.

Unfortunately the old GAS is kicking in so I might have a look at budget RF options out there. Any recommendations?
 

Xmas

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A big thanks for all replies received so far. Apparently you need to use one to be able to fully appreciate its advantages. So far I have been using a Pentax MX + 50mm f1.9 for all street work with no problems. To be fair the MX is indeed very small by old-SLR standards.

Unfortunately the old GAS is kicking in so I might have a look at budget RF options out there. Any recommendations?

depends on street style

Canonet G-III QL small light fast quiet
ditto any of trapped needle autos post '60
Canon P, or VI or 7 or 7s if you want system cosina or Canon lens both cheap...

The trapped needle have longer release travels if you want expression the system cameras are more noisy but the noise does not matter if you are after a 1st shot.

Few of the trapped need cameras offer metering and manual currently eg

Minolta 7s is full program auto or manual with metering ~ but large.

Leica M4-2 beater and Cosina lens not much more...

The trapped needles are cheap ~ charity shop.
 

pdeeh

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Well, maybe.

I started off with a R2A and then got a Ricoh 500G within a year ...

The only thing that would tempt me to a Leica is if I found one for a fiver at a car boot sale.
 

Peltigera

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I don't use an SLR for street photography but I don't use a rangefinder either - or if I do, I ignore the rangefinder and guestimate the distance.

If you use a really old camera - I am currently using my Balda Baldina folder from 1938 - no one gets upset with a camera being pointed at them. If they notice, they are usually intrigued.
 
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hoakin1981

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The camera is uber reliable and cheap but some people cannot tolerate the eye position dependency.

Try

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonet_G-III_QL17

mine was 25GBP... only needed new foam in 10 years

Well apparently things have changed from when you got yours as prices have soared upwards. With 25 GBP you can only get one in "for parts only" condition...
 

Xmas

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Well apparently things have changed from when you got yours as prices have soared upwards. With 25 GBP you can only get one in "for parts only" condition...

You need to be patient, eg wait to one appears on APUG or charity shop.
Mine needed a viewfinder clean which I've not bothered about. It was otherwise perfect.
My Minolta 7s was 40GBP last May but needed a reform otherwise perfect.
A Canon P body 225GBP
http://www.peterloy.com/stock-list.php
a Cosina 35mm /2.5 LTM 200GBP typically

The rangefinders tend to be low volume and difficult to find at reasonable GBP last P I bought was 150GBP.

https://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm

lots if comparisons
 

analoguey

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Only significant advantage (for street) is the supposedly smaller size but a Fuji x100(digital) is about same size as my Nikon fg20! (electro-Gsn not much smaller)
The speed of shooting is not gonna matter in milli-seconds because the photographers reaction time is usually >.6/.7s (600-700 milli-seconds) not including the focus time or the composing time.
For street, unless it's a very quiet one you'll not find SLR shutters obtrusive.

As mentioned above - rangefinder vf is usually brighter than SLR so you'll have to learn to see stopped down yourself or you'll be quite disappointed with how the image turns out.

Sent from Tap-a-talk
 

Xmas

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Only significant advantage (for street) is the supposedly smaller size but a Fuji x100(digital) is about same size as my Nikon fg20! (electro-Gsn not much smaller)
The speed of shooting is not gonna matter in milli-seconds because the photographers reaction time is usually >.6/.7s (600-700 milli-seconds) not including the focus time or the composing time.
For street, unless it's a very quiet one you'll not find SLR shutters obtrusive.

As mentioned above - rangefinder vf is usually brighter than SLR so you'll have to learn to see stopped down yourself or you'll be quite disappointed with how the image turns out.

Sent from Tap-a-talk

Sometimes you need to anticipate what is about to happen but allow for the visual delay between the event and your perception.

Typically this delay is about 300ms but can be larger with fatigue or lack of concentration. Everything you see is historical!

Pre focus and use a wide angle then crop on easel.

The noise from a rangefinder is only the shutter. The SLR has the mirror, iris and shutter.

If you lock up the mirror on a OM1 you still get iris and shutter. (Some cameras have a lotta iris noise.)

If you lock up the mirror on a F2 you only get the shutter.

But the noise reaches the subject after the shot is 'in the can', all a quiet camera allows is a sequence of non situation aware subjects.
 
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hoakin1981

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What about a Yashica Electro 35 GS? I have an offer in excellent condition which seems to be within budget.

Would it be a good choice?

P.S. Come to think of it, what would you believe is a fair price for such a model in excellent (supposedly) condition?
 
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Xmas

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They are excellent cameras if you are happy with aperture priority.

And quiet.

Donno about price sorry.
 

analoguey

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Sometimes you need to anticipate what is about to happen but allow for the visual delay between the event and your perception.

Typically this delay is about 300ms but can be larger with fatigue or lack of concentration. Everything you see is historical!

Pre focus and use a wide angle then crop on easel.


I agree on the anticipation -thats why I say camera's response time matters less.
I'm not sure the shooting style will change much whether on MF or 35mm or even LF - on the anticipation part only!

I have to anticipate a lot when on bike (motorbike) trips -so thats not a new skill to me.

But whether with sports shooting or rangefinder IMO the speed of the camera response is very unimportant than the anticipation of the moment, and the human reaction time - because more time is used up by the latter.

Pre-focus good for speedy operation but did make things a tad boring! :-D

The noise from a rangefinder is only the shutter. The SLR has the mirror, iris and shutter.

If you lock up the mirror on a OM1 you still get iris and shutter. (Some cameras have a lotta iris noise.)

If you lock up the mirror on a F2 you only get the shutter.

But the noise reaches the subject after the shot is 'in the can', all a quiet camera allows is a sequence of non situation aware subjects.

Depends on how close subject is to you - I prefer medium teles, so there's a certain distance to subject and unless it's the RB's mirror slap, not much is heard -even that gets muted at times around traffic.

I don't get what you mean on the OM and F2 above.


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